Buying Advice Diesel generator for home back up use

   / Diesel generator for home back up use #21  
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #22  
If you arent going to try and run a computer (some do, I probably wouldnt) a big ole' Listeroid diesel powered genny would be the ticket. 6000-7500w . Run forever on questionable fuel. Big hunk of iron that you can fix with a hammer;) etc.etc. Plus theyre pretty cool in their own right. If the world ends, cockroaches and listers might be all thats left:D Plus just listen to it! How can you not love a ticking diesel!
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #23  
10kw? 20kw?
I just don't get it.....
Have been through 3 6 day power outages in the past 10 years.

Honda 2000 and love it. Sips fuel which can be very difficult to come by. No problems. Quite comfortable.

If I had a well a slightly different story, probably something just big enough to handle the well.

I suggest you rethink exactly you really need.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #24  
How much of the 20KW are you actually using? Peak? Average? Unless you know, then it doesn't matter how big the generator is.

The OP lives in a rural setting in NY. Chances are, he will survive without AC. :) I'm sure AC is nice to have in your location, but unless you have a compelling medical condition, you would also survive.

My 6500W generator will run my house. Well pump, water heater, lights, microwave, refrigerator and small chest freezer. I cook with propane, heat with wood and sunshine, and it would be a long outage before I would really miss using the washer and dryer. With some manual power management, the dryer could be used. It wouldn't surprise me if the generator breaker tripped if the well, water heater and refrigerator all ran together. That would not be hard to manage either.

No point in overspending for generator capacity that will never be used.

Sigh, why is it when someone here posts something like "I've done the math, and I need 10KW", some expert has to tell them "oh no, I get by with 7KW, so you should be able to as well"?

The OP said he's estimated that he needs 10KW....let it go.

I had two electricians do a survey of my house, and they both said an absolute minimum of 17KW to run most things, including the AC, but that would still require being careful. I ran the numbers myself (I'm pretty familiar with Ohm's law), and cross-checked that on Generac's site, and other sites that have calculators for figuring how much you need. The low end was 17KW, and the high end was 22KW, as I recall. The difference between a 17KW and 20KW unit was around $300, so it would have been stupid to go with the smaller unit. I would have gone with 22KW, but they don't make an air-cooled model that large, and the liquid cooled units get big, and expensive.

Survive an outage in high temps? Probably, but as usual, the folks making comments like this don't know the facts that they're commenting on. My wife primarily works from home (this week she's in DC), in a loft office that would have been simply unbearable if the AC wasn't available the last time we had an outage (24hrs). She's a senior VP at an international company, and is paid accordingly, so she can't just say "oops, our power is out". She absolutely has to be able to work normally regardless of power outages....cell phone backup, mobile 4G hotspot, etc, etc are all in place so she can stay connected. Her company made a major concession keeping her as a remote employee, so we have to do our part. In addition, I sometimes have to travel for work, and am literally on-call 24/7/365. If things go really bad, I may not be home for several days, or longer. The closest gas station is 20min away, and I wouldn't have my 105lb wife trying to drag a generator out, and deal with trying to keep the tank full, and gas cans topped off, on top of working all day....it's simply not worth it.

We've had outages as long as four days here in the last few years, and several hours, to a day, is pretty common....we're in the sticks, and the last to get things fixed. I'm much happier having a unit that isn't taxed 100% to just barely keep things going. In fact, during the last outage, it was very hot (as I mentioned), and there were times when the AC would kick on, and it was obvious that the fan was spooling up slower than usual....short version, we were using all the generator had to give, and we were being careful about what we were using.

There's no point in spending a bunch of money on a generator if it still won't do everything you want it to do, and a little extra capacity won't hurt anything. It's like buying a 40gal hot water heater when you really need a 50gal unit, and wind up taking cold showers....dumb, and false economy.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #25  
For each person the minimum load will be different. I'm making due with a 5kw generator but it's the bare minimum to run my well pump. To do it I have to shut off everything else. 10k will not drive everything in a house but it would be fine for me. AC is not an issue and I can make do without the electric oven. Heating is done with a wood stove. But the freezer and fridge need to be ran for a little while every couple of hours as well as the furnace to keep the hot water at temp. That works out to 7kw to 8kw. A 10kw would give me a little extra room.

A pto generator is OK but I can easily teach my GF how to start a stand by generator. Trying to teach her how to start the tractor, engage the pto, and set the RPM to get the correct voltage is asking too much. The same holds true for refueling. A stand by with a large tank that I also use to fill the tractor wouldn't need refueling.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #26  
Some people want to just flick a switch and live like there is no outage.
And a LOT of people would object to even flipping the switch. They want POWER 24/7 seamlessly.

After Hurricane Isabel (2003) my former boss had a $10,000 generator package installed that kicked in whenever the power went off. The only "urgent" condition that required 24/7 power was that his stereo didn't get interrupted. I bought my $600 Honda powered generator.

Since then - almost 10 years - other than a few "short outages" where power wasn't off for more than an hour or so and thus wasn't an emergency - we've had 1 power outage that I ran my genset intermittently for about an hour.

He's happy, I'm happy.

If the OP thinks he needs 10KW and diesel let's give him advice for that.

If you read the other threads gasoline is often difficult to get in an extended power outage ( think Hurricane Sandy).

Diesel makes great sense if you have the infrastructure.

OP
Do you need it "quiet" or can you work with an open genset and build an enclosure?
Can you wrench and take care of a used unit or do you need new?

I also would strongly suggest a used military genset.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #27  
GManBart

Go back and read posts #1 and #2. OP "rough calculations." Me "how sure are you?"
Post #16 Me, "I'm not trying to tell the OP what size gen. he needs. His estimate was 10KW as I understood it. Could be right, or not."

So far, everyone BUT the OP has offered up their personal experiences. You, not knowing anymore than anyone else about the OP's real needs, are defending a large capacity generator--because you have one I guess, but don't know how much it actually produces apparently.

Anecdotal info about "spooling up slowly" is not how generator output is measured. Although I've never seen medical research that correlates one's pay grade to their core body temperature, and I want your wife to be comfortable by all means, that is not what is being talked about regarding actual generator output either.

An electrician is not going to put themselves in a position of a customer calling them and complaining about not enough power, just like furnace & heating guys, they will always err on the side of abundance rather than get calls that a house is cold. If they are installing a particular brand/model, from past experience they will recommend a unit rating that has worked in the past for the estimated load. Unit rating is not actual performance.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #28  
GManBart


An electrician is not going to put themselves in a position of a customer calling them and complaining about not enough power, just like furnace & heating guys, they will always err on the side of abundance rather than get calls that a house is cold. If they are installing a particular brand/model, from past experience they will recommend a unit rating that has worked in the past for the estimated load. Unit rating is not actual performance.

This is it in a nutshell nobody wants a callback. Code requires you to size a genset a certain way, and those calculations lead to a HUGELY oversized generator compared to if you do your load balancing manually and start motors one at a time etc.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #29  
This is it in a nutshell nobody wants a callback. Code requires you to size a genset a certain way, and those calculations lead to a HUGELY oversized generator compared to if you do your load balancing manually and start motors one at a time etc.

Ease of use, for a given person's situation, is certainly important, but logically I think nailing down the actual power need should come first, then look for a unit/installation/set-up that provides that in a way that works for the situation. It's really two different selection parameters.

It could well be that to get the desired ease of use, a person ends up with a larger capacity unit than needed electrically because that is what the market offers. The difference needs to be understood though.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #30  
GManBart

Go back and read posts #1 and #2. OP "rough calculations." Me "how sure are you?"
Post #16 Me, "I'm not trying to tell the OP what size gen. he needs. His estimate was 10KW as I understood it. Could be right, or not."

So far, everyone BUT the OP has offered up their personal experiences. You, not knowing anymore than anyone else about the OP's real needs, are defending a large capacity generator--because you have one I guess, but don't know how much it actually produces apparently.

Anecdotal info about "spooling up slowly" is not how generator output is measured. Although I've never seen medical research that correlates one's pay grade to their core body temperature, and I want your wife to be comfortable by all means, that is not what is being talked about regarding actual generator output either.

An electrician is not going to put themselves in a position of a customer calling them and complaining about not enough power, just like furnace & heating guys, they will always err on the side of abundance rather than get calls that a house is cold. If they are installing a particular brand/model, from past experience they will recommend a unit rating that has worked in the past for the estimated load. Unit rating is not actual performance.

My point wasn't defending larger generators, it was simply saying that 10KW isn't necessarily "big". My neighbor's house is a fair amount smaller than mine, and he's running either a 14KW or 17KW unit (can't recall)....many other people in the area are as well. There's a reason dedicated standby generators start around 8KW, and go way bigger than that...8KW just isn't that big.

I ran the numbers on our house prior to the install, and came up with the same ballpark two electricians did, and a couple of online calculators...I didn't keep any of that data, so I can't quote a figure, but 20KW wasn't even close to being an over abundance, it was slightly more than a max running load (generator is spec'd at 75amps continuous).

I never said we couldn't survive without AC, just that my wife wouldn't be able to work effectively, which is a non-starter. Right before we moved in, the power was out for four days while we were doing a remodel, and if we had been living here, we would have found a hotel to stay in...it was brutal.

If the OP thinks he needs 10KW, it's really not going to save him a bunch of money dropping down to 7/8KW, but it might cause him to lose things he'd like to keep running during an outage.
 
 
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