Buying Advice Diesel generator for home back up use

   / Diesel generator for home back up use #81  
"Yup - that is all it is. The wall penetration works well with an air gap of about 3/4 all around the flexible exhaust - which is held in place radially by three screws/bolts around 5/16" dia. The exhaust sticks out the other side, bent down slightly, about six inches. The ducting for the radiator fan has an outside door that is closed when not in use and latched open for running.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #82  
actually, they dont. there the largest supplier of residental units, so a larger number of failures does not mean there the worst brand. Generac supplies units rebranded as Guardian, Siemens,etc. As a ratio to number of units installed, they are very reliable.

I have installed many different brands of gen sets over the years, and ive had Kohler units fail also. I have a small Honda unit that im thinking of using as a boat anchor. personally i think its the fact that people forget there installed and dont maintain them. never change the oil, etc

There are lots of them out there because they are cheap, no other reason.

They are built cheap to be sold cheap. Ive seen their failures first hand. Saying that there are lots of failures because there are lots of units out there is a bit of a red herring.

IIRC I paid around $4500 for my 7000w inverter Honda, Yamaha inverters are about the same. Yet Generac sells a generator that is almost 3x the output, with an auto transfer sw and an enclosure, for the same money:laughing: It just doesnt add up unless there are significant savings found in the units construction. This plays itself out with Gererac failures in the field.

I agree on the maintenance thing, however with my neighbors unit, he had a maintenance contract and the generator was regularly serviced. It also auto-exercised once a week. Propane fueled.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #83  
The BX25 will do an entirely respectable job on a 15KW generator loaded up to 12KW.
Sometimes the small 12.5KW or 15KW pto units come up for sale at very modest price . Something for use right now or to keep in the shed for backup.
Portable too if power was required at the MIL's to protect her property or contents.
The BX25 is rated at 17.7 PTO HP. I've always read plan on 2hp/kw.

.
2. My power requirements are: Fridge, freezer, stove, lights, and oil fired furnace which includes tank less coil so all hot water comes from this, water well pump, computer, TV.

Hopefully your son-in-law properly rated the well pump. There's been a lot written on here about problems starting up pumps.

Do some searching on "used" army surplus gensets. Some bargains are out there. My BIL bought about 6 in 1998 and sold most of them for the Y2K scare.

Also if you get diesel plan on running it UNDER LOAD. Otherwise they "wetstack".

Good luck and thanks for posting back.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #84  
Also if you get diesel plan on running it UNDER LOAD. Otherwise they "wetstack".
Good luck and thanks for posting back.
The smaller military gensets (5kw MEP-002 and 10kw MEP-003) are air cooled, so they are less prone to wetstacking, but it is still something to watch out for.

Aaron Z
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #85  
There are lots of them out there because they are cheap, no other reason.
They are built cheap to be sold cheap. Ive seen their failures first hand. Saying that there are lots of failures because there are lots of units out there is a bit of a red herring.
IIRC I paid around $4500 for my 7000w inverter Honda, Yamaha inverters are about the same. Yet Generac sells a generator that is almost 3x the output, with an auto transfer sw and an enclosure, for the same money:laughing: It just doesnt add up unless there are significant savings found in the units construction. This plays itself out with Gererac failures in the field.
I wont disagree that they are built cheaper than a Honda, but in comparing your 7kw inverter to a larger genset you are comparing apples to oranges. Your generator has the magic I word in its name, thus a higher price. A better comparison would be a Honda EM6500S (MSRP $2889.95) vs a EU6500iS (MSRP $4499.95) vs a similar higher end Generac.
Also, price vs output is not linear. For example, a Honda EM4000 is $2249.95, ~$640 less than its big brother the EM6500 which puts out 1.6 times the power.

Aaron Z
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #86  
The BX25 is rated at 17.7 PTO HP. I've always read plan on 2hp/kw.

The heavier loaded the diesel, the less wet stacking is an issue.
The 2HP per KW is for round figuring convenience and sizing engines on continuous duty gen sets instead of intermittent duty such as your application. Some margin for motor starting to on a marginal quality system.
Still stands that your BX25 will run a 15KW generator at 12KW for days without a problem. The 15KW generator will have better voltage regulation and run cooler than a 12.5KW generator maxed out.
1.5HP per KW is fine.
746W per HP at 100% efficiency.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #87  
I wont disagree that they are built cheaper than a Honda, but in comparing your 7kw inverter to a larger genset you are comparing apples to oranges. Your generator has the magic I word in its name, thus a higher price. A better comparison would be a Honda EM6500S (MSRP $2889.95) vs a EU6500iS (MSRP $4499.95) vs a similar higher end Generac.
Also, price vs output is not linear. For example, a Honda EM4000 is $2249.95, ~$640 less than its big brother the EM6500 which puts out 1.6 times the power.

Aaron Z

Absolutely, having an inverter ads considerably to the cost, no argument.

But going back to conventional, the EM6500 is around $2900, rated at 23A @240V or 5520W. That calculates out to about $0.52/W

The Generac 20kW is $4500 and is rated at 83A@240V or 19,920W. $0.23/W

I accept that its not a linear relationship, but the Generac is so much cheaper that quality suffers. Look at what extra you get in the Generac package, ATS, enclosure etc..
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #88  
Sigh, why is it when someone here posts something like "I've done the math, and I need 10KW", some expert has to tell them "oh no, I get by with 7KW, so you should be able to as well"?

The OP said he's estimated that he needs 10KW....let it go.

I had two electricians do a survey of my house, and they both said an absolute minimum of 17KW to run most things, including the AC, but that would still require being careful. I ran the numbers myself (I'm pretty familiar with Ohm's law), and cross-checked that on Generac's site, and other sites that have calculators for figuring how much you need. The low end was 17KW, and the high end was 22KW, as I recall. The difference between a 17KW and 20KW unit was around $300, so it would have been stupid to go with the smaller unit. I would have gone with 22KW, but they don't make an air-cooled model that large, and the liquid cooled units get big, and expensive.

Survive an outage in high temps? Probably, but as usual, the folks making comments like this don't know the facts that they're commenting on. My wife primarily works from home (this week she's in DC), in a loft office that would have been simply unbearable if the AC wasn't available the last time we had an outage (24hrs). She's a senior VP at an international company, and is paid accordingly, so she can't just say "oops, our power is out". She absolutely has to be able to work normally regardless of power outages....cell phone backup, mobile 4G hotspot, etc, etc are all in place so she can stay connected. Her company made a major concession keeping her as a remote employee, so we have to do our part. In addition, I sometimes have to travel for work, and am literally on-call 24/7/365. If things go really bad, I may not be home for several days, or longer. The closest gas station is 20min away, and I wouldn't have my 105lb wife trying to drag a generator out, and deal with trying to keep the tank full, and gas cans topped off, on top of working all day....it's simply not worth it.

We've had outages as long as four days here in the last few years, and several hours, to a day, is pretty common....we're in the sticks, and the last to get things fixed. I'm much happier having a unit that isn't taxed 100% to just barely keep things going. In fact, during the last outage, it was very hot (as I mentioned), and there were times when the AC would kick on, and it was obvious that the fan was spooling up slower than usual....short version, we were using all the generator had to give, and we were being careful about what we were using.

There's no point in spending a bunch of money on a generator if it still won't do everything you want it to do, and a little extra capacity won't hurt anything. It's like buying a 40gal hot water heater when you really need a 50gal unit, and wind up taking cold showers....dumb, and false economy.

Good response. I also had a survey and was told 20KW and I use fuel oil for primary heat with propane logs in the fireplace for short term backup.
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #89  
There are lots of them out there because they are cheap, no other reason.

They are built cheap to be sold cheap. Ive seen their failures first hand. Saying that there are lots of failures because there are lots of units out there is a bit of a red herring.

IIRC I paid around $4500 for my 7000w inverter Honda, Yamaha inverters are about the same. Yet Generac sells a generator that is almost 3x the output, with an auto transfer sw and an enclosure, for the same money:laughing: It just doesnt add up unless there are significant savings found in the units construction. This plays itself out with Gererac failures in the field.

I agree on the maintenance thing, however with my neighbors unit, he had a maintenance contract and the generator was regularly serviced. It also auto-exercised once a week. Propane fueled.

well, all i can say is ive been installing generator sets for nearly 30 years. I would say 90% of them have been generac or guardian brands. I DONT sell either..i only install.

Of all the units ive personally installed, ive NEVER had a call back for a failed unit. Thats not aying they called someone else, but ive been called to replace batteries, add heaters,etc on them. No failures ever.

Thats with 100's of installs over the years.

take that for what its worth
 
   / Diesel generator for home back up use #90  
Generac makes perfectly fine water-cooled 1800 rpm generators that are price-comparable to diesel generators (approx $8700 for 22kW). I am told they are quite good. It's the air-cooled 3600 rpm units that are problematic (approx $3700 for 20 kW). You get what you pay for but it's more about air-cooled @ 3600 rpm versus water cooled @ 1800 rpm. I'd say the same when comparing any brand among those main categories.
 
 
Top