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  1. #1

    Default Who Should Pay?

    There is a current thread that discusses the experience of a tractor owner whose warranty claim has been turned down for the use of an unapproved modification to his implement.
    Another example is of a post in the JD forum of a backhoe for the 2210, yet JD does not recommend the use of a backhoe on the tractor.

    My question is, should the manufacturers of these attachments/implements that are clearly not recommended for some tractors be responsible for damage to the tractor to some degree.

    There may also be a statement to the effect that the implement is not approved for use on some tractors. Something like a disclaimer, and it does not have to be in small print.

    Comments welcome

    SethO

  2. #2
    Gold Member
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    Seth,

    I'll give you my take.

    If YOUR dealer intalls the item, he or she should have to pay, but I don't think the manufacturer should.

    I say this because we are starting to see more and more lawsuits regarding the mis-use of products (which is really what you are asking about). I, for one, don't agree with someone suing McDonalds because they have gained weight, suing a brewer because of their alcohol related problems or suing a gun maker because the use of one of their guns resulted in a tragedy.

    I only bring up the above examples becuase they are real world and are similar to installing a back hoe on a 2210 (or a 4010 in my case) and subsequently ripping the tractor apart because it was not designed to take that kind of force. If I purchased the hoe and did the install myself, I think I should be on the hook. If my JD dealer sold and installed the hoe-- and assured me that it would not void my warranty--his wallet should be on the table.

    Bob

  3. #3
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    New Holland TC30 Hydro 4x4, Gravely Zero Turn Mower

    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    With the versatility of utility tractors and the myriad of implements available, it would seem impossible for a manufacturer to identify and exclude certain ones. It's fairly easy for them to just say 'we only warrant our machines if used with our attachments'.

    Kinda reminds me of two stroke Dirt Bikes. The manufacturers offer no warranty whatsoever on those.

  4. #4
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    I would tend to think that the manufacturer should NOT be liable because they pretty clearly state what they do not recommend. If you do it anyway then you are at fault.

    Now the dealer has a tendancy to muddy the waters a bit because he might sell you a backhoe for a tractor that the manufacturer doesn't recommend use a backhoe, and that opens a new can of worms. Let's say the dealer installs it as says it won't void the tractor warrenty . . . FIRST, YOU BETTER HAVE THAT IN WRITING FROM THE DEALER . . .

    SECOND, a dealer's promise to a customers is probably NOT binding legally back to the manufacturer so the manufacturer can probably still void the warrenty but then I would think IF YOU GOT THE DEALER IN WRITING then even a dumb lawyer could get the dealer to fix the implement and the tractor at his expense. . . .

    THIRD, what if the dealer doesn't bother to say anything about the fact that the implement he is about to install on your tractor is not designed for that tractor? My bet is that YOU are then liable because you signed off on the purchase, you ordered the install, and you created a situation where there was abuse of the equipment. . .

    AND if you buy and install something the manufacturer does not recommend then you are clearly at fault.

    If you modify an implement in any way that is not specifically approved by the manufacturer and it fails, I'd suggest you are at fault for repairs to the implement.

    If you modify an implement in any way that is not specifically approved by the manufacturer and it fails and it damages the tractor, I'd suggest you are at fault for repairs to the tractor and to the implement.

    If you modify the tractor in any way that is not specifically approved by the manufacturer and it fails, then I'd suggest that they have the right to void the warrenty.

    My dealer's sales rep is a real farmer full time and tractor salesman part time. He told me to go ahead and drill into the ROPS to hang some extra lights. He did not say it was approved. He just said as a farmer sometimes he has to do what he has to do to get the job done. Did I drill holes in my ROPS? NOPE. I am still toying with adding lights, but I think I'll weld them on, or clamp them on, or stick them on with magnets. Now if I lived on FLAT land, I might now worry about the ROPS but I have a lot of steep spots to deal with and consequently I wear my seatbelt everytime I get on any of my tractors, so I'm a little paranoid about a ROPS failure. But the fact is, if I weaken the structure, there is nobody to blame but me. And if I put too much load on my electrical system and it starts a fire instead of blowing a fuse, well that is my fault too.

    Etcetera ad infinitum . . . [img]/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]




  5. #5
    Gold Member jcollins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    Welding to the ROPS weaken the structure as well. MFG's say to clamp to the rops only.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    You buy that attachment from a dealer? Then, the dealer pays.

    But this is in 'formal life'. On the other hand, there is the 'informal life' in that you consider 'there is/are powers above the laws' - then, who will pay? This is true question to be answered.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    Let me try to answer my own question above;

    If you believe in that the laws is the power, you pay to the laws (lawyers.)

    If you believe in that there are other powers above laws, you pay to those (other powers.)

    In either case, you the believer pay.

    There is third option which I call balance/equilibrium in which all pay - but will not go into it because too philosophical for you for the moment as I think people aren't familiar with balance/equilibrium understanding even though it's always there.

  8. #8
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    Nomad, I have multiple tractors, I buy the implement from the dealer, he doesn't know what tractor I am putting it on. For that matter, he might not even know I have a different brand machine in the garage other than the one he sold me. And if I bought the tractor last year and the implement this year then unless I got the same sales rep, and that guy has a good memory, then there is no way the dealer is liable.

    The only way I see the dealer as possibly being liable is if he is my brother in law, he sells me everything I have in the garage, he does the repairs to everything, he makes the recommendations, and I have everything he told me in writing. Other than that, it is kind of like smoking. . . cigarettes cause cancer. . . or like eating too many Big Macs . . . you will get fat . . . or eating too much sugar . . . you will have cavities, and probably develop diabetes

    Regarding welding on the ROPS, yes it will weaken it if it is done incorrectly or if it is done correctly but with little thought to the structure. However, if a corner bracket is added with a flange that holds the light, then it will strenghten the ROPS structure, but still probably void the warrenty.


    I take exeption with those who blame others. I feel I am responsible for my own actions and my own mistakes. Maybe I was born 100 years too late to live in today's society that accepts no blame, makes everyone a victim and rewards idiots.



  9. #9
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Welding to the ROPS weaken the structure as well. MFG's say to clamp to the rops only )</font>

    I agree fully. No welds, cuts or drills to the rops.. why take the chance.. even if the chance is .0000001%.

    Even the manufacturer uses ridged U-bolts to install canopies on the rops.

    Soundguy

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Who Should Pay?

    Bob_Skurka, I guess you were typing while I was posting my last post above. So, you probably didn't see my last post. Please, read my last post above, especially "balance / equilibrium" part which is its important part as it's the true reality.

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