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  1. #21
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    56
    Location
    Texas
    Tractor
    2012 John Deere 5045D

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    I haven't owned a Kioti, but one of the dealers I used in the past had a Kioti dealership and I was impressed with what you were able to get for the money. Since you are planning on moving some dirt and building a mini track, my only recommendation would be to get the heaviest tractor you can afford. You will lose traction way before you lose HP. On my first tractor purchase, I was all over the place on what to get. Fortunately my dealer allowed me to try out several models on my property to see how they worked out. In the end, I wound up with the heaviest one I could afford (Massey Ferguson 1445) - and due to the rocky terrain - it was still too little tractor to do some of the things I wanted to. At 3800 lbs before loading the tires, however, it was much more capable than the smaller models I tried.

    You haven't mentioned what the soil conditions are like at your place. Depending on how rough it is, you might decide to buy what you would need in most instances, and then rent bigger equipment when you need it. At my new place, my needs were much different than the past - so I ended up buying a heavier 45 HP 2WD utility tractor (for the same price as a SCUT) with only the implements I need on a daily basis. For the bigger projects, I can rent equipment that is perfectly suited to the job without feeling guilty about it.

    I will say that you are lucky to have a good Kioti dealership near you, since they offer such good value. If I had one near me, I would have definitely given them a good look.

  2. #22
    Gold Member jimpen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    336
    Location
    SW, Ohio
    Tractor
    Mahindra Max 25HST

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    This is sort of redundant to my earlier post. But if you never expect to dig out stumps, dig deep holes, etc. You don't need a backhoe. That is your decision.

    The FEL -- you don't expect to move much ever, that again is your decision.

    So go and buy the basic tractor with just a finish mower and/or a bush hog.

    I have lived out in the hinterlands between Columbus, Cincy, and Dayton for more than ten years now. I can't name the number of times that I stopped or slowed down when I saw tractor for sale. Almost none had a FEL or the seller wanted +$10K for the tractor, with the added stuff.

    If it had no FEL, I always looked at the cost to add the hydraulics and such and the numbers didn't work. So I could buy an MTD piece of cratp for $1K at Wal-mart with a 38" deck. It did the basic -- cut the grass and generally lasted 2-3 seasons. Pay $4K with nothing extra other than a wider deck for something used. I could buy a ZTR for that. Or spend +20K to get essentially all I need, probably for life. About the only add-on that I have bought was some pallet forks for stuff that won't fit in the FEL.

    So the choice is yours. But you definitely want the hydraulics installed.

  3. #23
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    79
    Location
    Stoddard, NH
    Tractor
    Kubata B7200

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    Another 2 cents worth of opinion re: SCUT & CUT - think about tire size if you are working in a rough field.
    The SCUT's will do a whole lot of work but typically have what I feel are "nervously" small tires.
    The CUT's tires are typically larger in diameter anf therrefore better going over rough ground (deeper holes & deeper mud).
    I went with a CUT for just that reason.
    "Nuther" comment - if this is a first tractor purchase, by a used machine and learn what these can really do before dropping a load of money on what you think might be a good idea!
    Then you'll buy smarter.

  4. #24
    Super Member Gary Fowler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,774
    Location
    Bismarck Arkansas
    Tractor
    2009 Kubota RTV 900, 2009 Kubota B26 TLB & 2010 model LS P7010

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    I thought about used briefly till I saw what everyone was asking for used equipment. New is only a few thousand more than a 4-5 year old tractor with 300 or more hours in most cases. I did buy my kubota B26 used from an individual who had also bought it from the original owner. Between the 2 people they had put 60 hours on it in 3 years and it was about $10K cheaper than a new one. I bought my Kubota RTV used from original owner also at 2 years of age and 45 hours for $4K savings. If you find some deals like that, then used isn't bad, otherwise, just stick with new especially if you need to finance it. New can be had at 0% interest in many cases compared to 7% or more for a used one.
    As for size, 25-30 HP should handle all you need to do in a CUT size. I don't think a post hole digger will work on SCUT as they wont raise the drill off the ground.
    I love my back hoe and wouldn't be without one. My only regret is not getting one 3 years earlier. I don't use shovels to dig holes for planting shrubs anymore or wheel barrow to haul material either. My tractors and my Kubota RTV do all the work for me now. Oh and if you decide to get a back hoe, don't forget to get the hydraulic thumb on it. Adding a thumb to the hoe, is about the same as the difference in what you could do with/without your own thumb.

    One thing that you will find that is not any difference between your riding lawnmower and the tractor is that it isn't going to ride any smoother. The tractor suspension (or lack thereof) is just like your riding mower so you will feel every bump. You may get a better set with some shock absorbing springs to help out a bit, but they are still rough so you may not be able to travel any faster with the tractor than with the mower.
    2010 LS P-7010C 20F/20R gear tractor & FEL, 2009 Kubota B 26 TLB, RTV 900 Kubota,17 foot Lund boat with 70HP motor, 2012-20 ft 12k GVW trailer, 2011- 52" Craftsman ZTR mower, 2013 Ferris Zero Turn, 3 weed whackers, pressure washer, leaf blowers, 7 foot bush hog, 8 foot landscape rake , 8 foot 3 PH disc, 2 row cultivator, 350 amp Miller AC/DC welding machine and all the tools needed to keep them all repaired and running.

  5. #25
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    105
    Tractor
    JD 2305

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    we have 3 acres, former wheat field, adjacent to wildlife management area/lake. debated between skidder and tractor to develop lot into full-time home (build house/polebarn, build driveway, landscape/drainage, plant/mow lawn, and blow/blade snow, etc). i dont have trees like you, plus i did/do have a neighbor with a skidsteer that really likes to play on it! I decided the tractor would be more versatile for the upcoming projects. So, how big? I bought a used JD2305 scut, with blower, 60"mmm, and have added a FEL, box- and rear-blades. For the dirt-moving reshape landscape, my neighbor did it in about 8 hours - would've taken me weeks with a rental, or months with my little tractor. But i've cut bushels of grass, moved many tons of gravel & rock, blown two seasons of snow and maintained the gravel road & driveway with the combo since.
    Hindsight: would've been nice to have a beefier tractor, maybe 30hp, but then i probably wouldnt mow with it (add ztr). I think this is a perfect setup. The little guy works like a horse, fits in the garage for winter warmth (with the front blower and rear blade mounted), fits on the trailer i use for everything else and isn't too big on my little spot.

    I don't have trees to contend with, and my other neighbor has a scut with a bh attachment, so i may host some bbq parties for him to help with my retaining wall(s). Now, if i didn't have these two guys itching to move dirt with their toys...

  6. #26
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    56
    Location
    Texas
    Tractor
    2012 John Deere 5045D

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    Quote Originally Posted by warky715 View Post

    My future plans are to dig a small pond, mini bike track, post hole dig for a new fence and pole barn, add a separate driveway, dig out for patio, dig around house and redo storm drains along with the typical gardening stuff and whatever else I can think of over the next several years.


    Thanks.
    I took a quick look at the specs on the Kioti tractors. For the uses you described above, honestly, I think I would be looking at something like the CK20s or CK25. The CK20S appears to weigh 2000+ lbs, while the CK25 weighs 3,000+ lbs (if you load the tires on both it will add a good amount of weight). I'm not sure about the price difference between the two, but even if they were the same HP, I would still like the extra weight. Since you already have a JD x540 for mowing, I don't know if you would ever be happy with a smaller SCUT, since in my opinion their big benefit is that they make good mowing tractors for tight spaces, while also giving some functionality of having a loader and some 3pt attachments. When I was looking, it didn't seem like there was a big price difference between SCUT and CUT.

    I don't know about the Kiotis, but I know that when I was looking at the John Deere 1 series, they would not take a full sized post hole digger - I'm not sure about other SCUTS.

    To give you an idea of the earth moving capability of something like the CK20s, here is a video that I came across on youtube. For all I know, it might be someone from the forum?

    Digging a pond with a Compact Tractor - Kioti CK20s - YouTube

  7. #27
    Super Member 94BULLITT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    7,435
    Location
    Frederick County, VA
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2360 & L4240 HSTC

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    Since it sounds like you have a lot of use for a loader I would look at tractors the size of a kubota B3200. I would use it to smooth out your yard and keep the X540 to mow with.

  8. #28
    Super Star Member murphy1244's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    16,805
    Location
    Ohio
    Tractor
    Kioti DK 40-Massey ferguson 135-Ventrac 4500 Diesel

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    Quote Originally Posted by 94BULLITT View Post
    Since it sounds like you have a lot of use for a loader I would look at tractors the size of a kubota B3200. I would use it to smooth out your yard and keep the X540 to mow with.
    Welcome back Roger.
    Murph ------------

  9. #29
    Super Member 94BULLITT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    7,435
    Location
    Frederick County, VA
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2360 & L4240 HSTC

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    Quote Originally Posted by murphy1244 View Post
    Welcome back Roger.
    Thanks

  10. #30
    Elite Member Gittyup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,869
    Location
    Mid Atlantic
    Tractor
    Kioti CK25 Shuttle Shift, loaded tires, JD X739

    Default Re: sub compact or compact tractor?

    The CK20 is not a SubCUT. It will handle standard CAT1 implements, including a PHD. However, the OP's situation is similar to mine: 2.5 acres, a JD425 for mowing, and had a need to move earth, and lots of it. I went in thinking CK20. Test drove it and it's bigger brother CK25. I chose the CK25 in gear because:

    Only $1500 more
    About 50% heavier
    way more hydraulic flow
    extendable 3PH
    Shuttle shift manual tranny gave me maximum power to the ground (shuttle not available on a CK20). HST mandates more HP: CK30 or CK35.
    Live PTO
    1 ft. Bigger bucket
    1 ft longer backhoe (reach is king with BHs)


    If you want a digger, an earth mover, a trencher, a road maintainer - there are few, if any, better in this HP class than the Kiotis. With loaded tires, my CK25 TLB weighs in around 6100 lbs or so. It's a beast. I have moved well over 1000 tons of fill dirt and stone with it, and several hundred tons of manure, mulch, concrete, brush, and other materials. I dug hundreds of feet of trenches for drain lines and retaining walls, I've removed several huge stumps. Buried a 500 gallon propane tank. I've installed 800 feet of fence. Built a small pond. excavated for a patio. Move snow. Chipped brush........ These things are so useful!

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