Buying Advice sub compact or compact tractor?

[Wolfman]

Sorry if I gave the impression that I was implying that the CK20 was a SCUT. I was actually trying to say that going with a CK would be better than a SCUT because it could handle a full sized post hole digger as opposed to the JD SCUT that I had looked at.

Gittyup, your setup looks great. After having both hydro and gear, for my purposes, I see nothing wrong with going gear if it gets you into a larger tractor. My last tractor was a hydro and my most recent tractor is a gear (mine is not even a shuttle). After a little practice with it, I can't say that I miss the hydro...

[jimpen]

To give you an idea of the earth moving capability of something like the CK20s, here is a video that I came across on youtube. For all I know, it might be someone from the forum?

Digging a pond with a Compact Tractor - Kioti CK20s - YouTube

Well using the BH in my neck of the woods I started hitting clay about 5.5 feet down for my burn pit. But it was definitely a good video.

I dug a growing tree out next to my house's foundation with a combo of the BH and FEL. No added damage to the foundation. His digging out a pond I could probably do with my Max25, if I felt like it.

Realistically in the SCUT/CUT size tractors they have moved into the difference between a Ford F-150 and Chevy 1500 or Dodge Ram 1500. Each one has a little more emphasis on speed compared to cargo capacity compared to price. But each will do the basic job of running stuff around. So it is a matter of doing the research and deciding which combo is the best fit for you needs.

In my case I saw a kubota ad and went to that dealership 25 miles away and found out they had Mhindra's as well. The numbers for the Mahindra were cheaper than the Kubota's for the equal capacity. Years prior I had gone to the Mahindra dealer 3 miles away and the financing didn't work. This time it did.

There are some brands I wouldn't buy just because I have never hear of them. To be frank, until I came here I never heard of Kioto. But JD, Kubota, IH/Case, Mahindra, and Ford/New Holland tractor dealers are spread around the area. So whatever decision is made you need to look at what you want to do with it, support for your equipment, and what you can afford.

And then part of the decision is what equipment you want off the bat (and financing) and what you can buy later.

[murphy1244]

I took a quick look at the specs on the Kioti tractors. For the uses you described above, honestly, I think I would be looking at something like the CK20s or CK25. The CK20S appears to weigh 2000+ lbs, while the CK25 weighs 3,000+ lbs (if you load the tires on both it will add a good amount of weight). I'm not sure about the price difference between the two, but even if they were the same HP, I would still like the extra weight. Since you already have a JD x540 for mowing, I don't know if you would ever be happy with a smaller SCUT, since in my opinion their big benefit is that they make good mowing tractors for tight spaces, while also giving some functionality of having a loader and some 3pt attachments. When I was looking, it didn't seem like there was a big price difference between SCUT and CUT.

I don't know about the Kiotis, but I know that when I was looking at the John deere 1 series, they would not take a full sized post hole digger - I'm not sure about other SCUTS.

To give you an idea of the earth moving capability of something like the CK20s, here is a video that I came across on youtube. For all I know, it might be someone from the forum?

Digging a pond with a Compact Tractor - Kioti CK20s - YouTube

That is someone on this forum. That's TSO who recently upgraded to a Cabbed Massey 1648 I think.

[TSO]

Yup that was my old CK20s HST. Very capable tractor. I wouldn't mind owning one again, or even a slightly smaller SCUT, in addition to my 1648.

The CK20s had a couple small warranty repairs, but was otherwise very good. Only complaint was the 2spd HST ... would have benefited from being 3spd.

[warky715]

I think I'm going to wait till the new incentive programs come out in spring then maybe I'll go kick some more tires. I'll see if they let me try a couple out at my house but probably not till I'm fully in the market to purchase, I don't really want to waste they're time until I know I have the OK from the boss and my conscience to buy such an expensive toy.

Also take some more time to decide what I want to do myself vs. maybe hiring out since a family friend does have an excavating company. Sure would be nice to do everything myself but at the end of the day everything comes down to $.

Thanks for all the help guys.

[Wolfman]

I don't really want to waste they're time until I know I have the OK from the boss and my conscience to buy such an expensive toy.

I've got one thing to say to set your conscience at ease. I felt the same way that you do about spending a lot of money on a tractor, but I am really shocked at how well these tractors hold their value. You really don't have to view it as an outright expense because it is nothing like owning a car that devalues very quickly.

[TSO]

I've got one thing to say to set your conscience at ease. I felt the same way that you do about spending a lot of money on a tractor, but I am really shocked at how well these tractors hold their value. You really don't have to view it as an outright expense because it is nothing like owning a car that devalues very quickly.

That's a really good point, especially if you're a smart shopper and you get a good starting price to begin with. For example:

Bought a Kioti CK20s, used it for about a year & 200 hrs. Sold it for about $1000 less than I paid for it.
Bought an LS R4041 Shuttle. Used it for a few months & 50 hrs, traded it back to the dealer, so I lost a total of $1000 on it.
Bought an LS R4047 HST. Used it for 8 months & 150 hrs, sold it for about $1700 less than I paid for it.
Then I bought my Massey 1648 HST Cab.... hopefully I'll keep this one for awhile but if not, I got it for a great price, so I probably won't lose much.

So, long story short, in 2 years, I've put about 400 hrs on a tractor, for about $3700. So, in a sense I've leased/rented a tractor for $155/month, or about $10/hour of use. I doubt I could have actually rented a machine for all that time for the equivalent of $10/hr ... and in the process, I learned alot about tractors, how to use them, all that stuff.

So yeah, don't worry too much about "losing money" because your productivity goes way up with a tractor!

[cartod]

Not only does mine hold value, but it works its *** off and save me literally thousands of dollars a year on labor, chiropractors, landscapers, and mules.

[batwing]

I've got one thing to say to set your conscience at ease. I felt the same way that you do about spending a lot of money on a tractor, but I am really shocked at how well these tractors hold their value. You really don't have to view it as an outright expense because it is nothing like owning a car that devalues very quickly.

I agree when I started looking for a used 4x4 tractor with a loader all I found for 10 grand was to small or really showed there age.
Ron

[rmorey]

That's a really good point, especially if you're a smart shopper and you get a good starting price to begin with. For example:

Bought a Kioti CK20s, used it for about a year & 200 hrs. Sold it for about $1000 less than I paid for it.
Bought an LS R4041 Shuttle. Used it for a few months & 50 hrs, traded it back to the dealer, so I lost a total of $1000 on it.
Bought an LS R4047 HST. Used it for 8 months & 150 hrs, sold it for about $1700 less than I paid for it.
Then I bought my Massey 1648 HST Cab.... hopefully I'll keep this one for awhile but if not, I got it for a great price, so I probably won't lose much.

So, long story short, in 2 years, I've put about 400 hrs on a tractor, for about $3700. So, in a sense I've leased/rented a tractor for $155/month, or about $10/hour of use. I doubt I could have actually rented a machine for all that time for the equivalent of $10/hr ... and in the process, I learned alot about tractors, how to use them, all that stuff.

So yeah, don't worry too much about "losing money" because your productivity goes way up with a tractor!

Not to mention, it's at your disposal, 24/7, whereas, a rental would only be available when the rental place is open. As an example, say your water line blows on Saturday night and needs to be dug up and replaced. In 10 minutes, your warmed up and ready to go. Rental unit may not be available until Monday morning.

In addition, the longer you keep it, the less per hour it will cost. We bought a new '04 CK25, put 1,188 hours on it and traded it in 2013 for $4,900 less than we paid. $4,900 / 1,188 = $4.13/hour. So I agree, losing money is probably not a big issue.