cub cadet vs toro ztr with steering wheel?

[wanoyee]

Hi All,

I have tried to find as much info as possible to make an informed buying decision but finding info/opinions on the following mowers seems impossible. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. I'm hoping tractorbynet is the place to get some good advice...

I am looking to buy a zero turn mower with a steering wheel (I don't want to buy a lap bar or get into lap bar vs steering wheel thing). The 3 mower brands that sell them are Cub Cadet, Toro and ExMark (made by Toro?). I have about 1 1/2 acres to mow that is rolling & sloped about 5º-10º on average and a few very small parts of my lawn are more but not worth noting. I have too many trees and things to get around to use a standard tractor mower which I use now. I'm looking for opinions (should be easy to get on the internet :laughing: ) to make a decision on what brand to buy. As for deck size, I'm thinking of 42"-50". My current tractor mower takes me 2 1/2 hrs to mow then another hour with a push mower to get the places I can't get to with the tractor. I don't need a commercial super mower, but would like a mower that will last a while (10-15 yrs?) and do a good job cutting my lawn (which is not a plush flat lawn that you see in the suburbs or in commercials but more "natural"/rough).



What I've read/heard so far...
Cub Cadet seems to get a lot of good and bad press. Seems quite a few people don't like CC brand. Made by MTD, so it's not made well. Have read that problems were in the past and the new steering wheel ztr is a good mower. Some people don't like the Kohler motors and prefer the Kawasaki motors.

Toro seems to be well regarded by a few people and some definitely prefer it over CC. Some differences between CC and Toro steering wheel ztr's but basically similar. Toro makes an ExMark version. Talked to one person who said the Kohler motor is better than the Toro motor...

Things that concern me...
The engines (Kohler vs Kawasaki vs Toro)... Is it worth getting a Kawasaki over a Kohler? How good is a Toro engine? Hydrostatic drives (some versions are not repairable, only replaceable). Is it worth paying more for drives that are repairable? Your thoughts on overall quality of build and cutting? For me, this is a purchase and I would like to get right and buy something that will be reasonably good quality for a homeowner user.

Trying to compare this: Cub Cadet RZT S50
to this:Toro TimeCutter SW5000

Your opinion? Advice?

Thanks in advance. Sorry for all the questions...

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I don't have any advice for you on those two specific mowers, but do have some other advice.

1. I doubt that any mower that is not a full blown commercial mower is going to last 10 - 15 years unless you put very few hours per year on it AND baby it AND maintain it religiously. The mowers you are looking at are $3,000 mowers. It is very doubtful you would get that sort of longevity from one of them. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You don't always get what you pay for, but you never get something you don't pay for.

2. I don't know what level of motor the Cub and Timecutter use. Almost certainly not a commercial grade. Kawasaki designates their engines by the prefix FR (residential), FS (semi-commercial) and FX (commercial). Kohler's commercial engine is the Command Pro. Briggs & Stratton's commercial engine is the Vanguard, which is not built by Briggs but by Daihatsu. The commercial models of all three brands are good motors. The lower end motors seems to be luck of the draw. From any of the three, you might get one that is great, or you might get a problem child. Which is best or worst? Well, that depends on who you ask. You can find people who love one and hate the others. Another guy will have some anecdotal story about one of them that blew up, used oil, backfired, wouldn't start, etc., etc. There are guys on lawnmower forums that will whip out their keyboards and duel you to the death over which brand is best and which one sucks the worst.

3. I don't know what type of transmission the Cub or the Toro use. If it's HydroGear, my understanding (which could be incorrect) is that any HydroGear tranny below a 3100 is not considered commercial grade and may not be repairable (or, even it if is, may not be cost effective to repair vs. replace). If it's TuffTorq, some of the TuffTorq hydrostatic drives (used in JD lawn tractors) are not repairable - at least not officially. The K46 is one of them, although I believe there's a thread here on TBN on how to repair one. On the other hand, some of the TuffTorq's are indeed repairable and are a lot more robust than the K46. I have a TuffTorq K71 in my John Deere GT235, and it's a very stout transmission that was used back in the days before JD sold out their integrity to the big box stores.

 

[oldpilgrim]

Have you ever used a zt mower on a hill? My brother had one and found it alawys wanted to turn down hill when running across the hill. He had a heck of time trying to keep it in a straight line. Maybe it was the machine, maybe it was him, but I can see how the casters on the front could cause that.

He had 20 hours on a new Snapper and traded it in for a conventional steering unit.

 

[Katahdin]

My lawn condtions are similar and I have no complaints over the longevity of my Toro residential mowers. I have a Timecutter z420 (B&S 16hp) going on 10 years old now, and I have a 32 inch rider (B&S 8hp) that we keep for backup that my grandfather bought in the 1980s, The current z420 gets about 2 hours a week of use, there was no time saved when I upgraded to a Zero turn...my lawn simply got bigger!

I have a knarly drop of the edge of a septic field, I always hit that going nose down and the Toro can maintain a controlled descent. Occasionally I will have a problem on a hill steering in one direction, so I just spin it around in the other direction, remember, ZTRs are like driving a spinning tea cup at Disney World, have fun with it.

Although I have never experienced a Toro drivetrain failure, you're inevitably going to need parts. With toro getting a part has never been a problem for me.

One piece of advice, get the mulching kit, it has made fall leaves cleanup a whole lot easier. Also -- since there is no discharge chute, you can mow in any direction you please, or in whatever direction best suites the terrain.

 

[AxleHub]

Hi All,

Wanoyee,

I'll go "outside the box" with 2 very different ideas.

In 2007 Cub Cadet came out with a patented unique idea . . instead of a ztr (zero turn rider) they came out with a ztt ( zero turn tractor).

It looks like a traditional lawn tractor except it has front wheels that can turn (with steering wheel) virtually 90 degrees.

They stopped making rhem end of 2011. I just bought one used with 59 hours on it 3 weeks ago . . its a late 2011. I also could have bought a BRAND NEW 2007 with full warranty.

3 sizes made 42 inch wirh Kohler 18 hp
46 inch with Kohler 20 hp.
50 inch with kohler 25 hp.

I bought the 50 incher.

Whats good about it? I bought a brand new snowblower for it in winter and it does a wonderful job of mowing. It was designed from the ground up to be very good on hills and very stable . . it is even on my very steep hills. Its got good seat suspension. I cut 1.5 acres if manicured hills and some flat. I cut 1 acre of country lawn with uneven turf. In either case it is nimble, can mulch well as well as cut normally. It is very easy to control yet is zero turn. AND it rear 2 differentials makes it have great traction and not the problems of the ztr units . . Because it's a tractor.

OPTION 2 Kubota makes a GR series that is 4 wheel drive lawn tractors that has "glide steer" which again is similar to rhe cub I just described with near zero turn ability and also easy on the turf wirh its patented steering process.

 

[Xfaxman]

I also went "outside the box". I prefer a front deck, so went used commercial: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/all-other-brands/301894-any-toro-groundsmaster-fans-here.html

 

[AxleHub]

I also went "outside the box". I prefer a front deck, so went used commercial:

Toro makes an ingenius zero turn Stand on unit also. Its commercial grade and instead of the deck adjusting in height of cut . . The motor moves up and down for height settings. Essentially the same product today as when I first saw them in 2006/2007. So used ones offer less investment.

But for a real all-seasons front mower . . I liked the Grasshopper units which are made in the US . . Well made easy to maintenance and great for hills and less than perfect grass conditions (smoothness). Zero turn certainly . . but how you can tilt the front mower for culverts and fence posts etc. is clever. Then drop the cutting deck off and attach the snowblower and it makes the most "visibility capable " blowing or brooming unit.

 

[ustmd]

I have the club cadet RZT 50 that we use to mow ~2 acres. We bought it in Spring 2012 and have 350-400 hours on it with no major issues--1 service call for a carb clean/rebuild.

I believe the two you are looking at are very close in quality/performance. If that is the case, buy from the dealer you think will support you after the sale better or is easier to deal with. That is what we did. OF course, the 3 year/no interest/same price as cash deal from club cadet didn't hurt in the decision making process.

 

[wanoyee]

Hearing your opinions help. What I am considering is not a ZT with lap bars but a ZT with a steering wheel that controls the front wheels. It is like the same thing only different. The front wheels help prevent the mower from wanting to turn downhill when cutting across slopes (supposedly). The front wheels are not casters that will follow the bumps, but steerable so you will have more control.

Differences in quality are important to me... I can't afford a commercial mower and buying one for my lawn would be like driving to the corner store in a full blown Nascar machine... Fun, but way overkill. Also, I love some of the alternatives you presented. Thanks!

After talking with a couple of dealers who sell both brands, I was convinced to go the Cub Cadet route. Found a dealer who seems to have a good rep locally. Went to the store after talking on the phone. Talked some more in the store. Seemed honest with his opinions and advice. Ended up getting a Cub Cadet Z-Force S48. Slightly bigger more bada$$ machine than what I was considering but the price was right. $400 was knocked off the sticker bc it was a floor model from last yr but the model is unchanged to 2015, now designated Z-Force SZ 48. Ended up getting a $4500 machine for $3999. Normally, I kinda shy away from floor models but this was still like new and the price was unbeatable. Also, the dealer will deliver and pick up for NO delivery charge ever for any maintenance needed. That I like!

It has the Kawasaki engine, better hydros, fab deck and it's built unbelievably rugged. More machine than I need but I couldn't resist...

Thanks to all who posted! Much appreciated. It arrives tomorrow...

 

[timswi]

We have a CC ZT that is a step up from the residential model..Apx $5000 2 years ago..Anyway, one selling point of the CC is that most of them have front steering along with the rear wheels. This prevents the ZT from getting out of sorts on grades as the lap bar style does. I've never had an issue with Koehler or Kaw motors so I'm agnostic there.

I did have a bad experience with CC not being happy about standing behind their stuff though. Doubt that Toro is much better...My 2cents