Newbie here, not afraid to ask for advice and opinions on a new tractor, etc

[concernedcitizen]

Hello all,

I'm a newbie, comparable to out of diapers to all of this, so be gentle if you would because I have questions and am suffering from information overload (due to the great number of members here as well as more information than I could possibly absorb or even sort through in a years time).

What I have learned (well at this point, lets just say I think I've learned, time and responses will tell if I actually did) is that the more information and specifics I provide in my posting, the better and more specific the answers in replies from the members will be in helping guide or steer me in the correct direction.

I am looking for a new tractor, not a used tractor

The tractor would be used for the following tasks​

1. mowing of grass Areas would total around 3 acres combined
1a. would like to use a 60 or 72 width attachment

2. Brush Cutting Area would initially be roughly 20 acres followed by additional occasional for maintenance of that area as well as a limited number of new areas that would likely not exceed 1 acre in size
2a. would like to use a 60 or 72 width attachment

3. Tilling Rotor tilling Area would initially be around 2 acres followed by very limited increases that would likely be less than a ï½½ acre in size
3a. would like to use a 60 or 72 width attachment

4. Disk/Harrow disk No predefined area at the moment, plans would include the use of a harrow disk set for making/breaking new ground for crops (mostly) and creation of fire breaks (secondary)
4a. would like to use a 72 or 84 width attachment

5. Post hole digging and Post hole driving Would be used heavily initially and then for routine maintenance of a large fencing system
5a. would like to use 6" 12" and 18" auger bits

6. Front end Loader (FEL, one of the terms I actually learned from this board) Would be used for a wide variety of jobs/needs; gravel and sand placement/moving; moving of fallen trees/brush; removing pallets from trucks, moving pallets around the ranch and general usage
6a. Need to be able to lift pallets off of trucks weighing in the range of 2,200 (bare minimum) to 4,200 lbs (maximum) with a I壇 be happy medium capacity of 2,500 lbs +/- but larger capacity would be great.

7. Pulling logs

Location, Terrain, Climate, etc​

Location would be in middle Montana, not mountainous, but parts would be hilly if you will. There will be some decent grades of hills that the tractor would need to overcome occasionally but not on a daily basis.
From the limited information I was able to process, it appears as though I should be looking for a tractor with 4 wheel drive, as parts of the ranch have the ability and will likely be muddy, but correct me if I知 wrong and please do point me in the right direction
Tractor would be used pretty much year round, but nothing anticipated as far as snow duties are concerned, such as none of the following; snow blowing, snow plowing, etc.



While I think I am aware that tractors that meet the above criteria are not cheap, but are almost certainly rather expensive. I am not able to say price or cost is not an issue, if what I think I have seen about prices (high Tens of thousands of dollars for the tractor alone) than I am at least in the right ballpark and an not out my league. I am not on an unlimited million dollar budget, but I'm also not specifically tied to a 60k budget either.

I am certain that in the future as we (family) grow in our confidence and abilities, that there will be additional jobs or tasks that we will want the tractor to take on, so I would like to oversize the tractor a little bit, like go one or two sizes bigger so that we are not later faced with needing to sell or trade it away for a bigger one.
The problem is that the only thing I have currently to contribute as far as potential later uses would be to bale hay for some livestock (likely to be 2 dozen head of cattle, up to 4 horses and maybe some goats). So if its not possible to provide opinions or options for this, I will certainly understand.

My next issue is the number of manufacturers and models. This is indeed where the overloading of information started and to this hour continues. To a total newbie, I cannot make heads or tails, north or south of the sheer number of line item specifications.

There is not really any dealer close to where the ranch will be located, so no matter which brand I'd be purchasing, its a minimum of an hour and a half drive (on a sunny day) each way to get there. So unless there is a reason that I am not yet aware of I have been leaving that out of the equation for making a decision on which brand to purchase. I was not able to find any new Holland dealers (via their dealer locator), so I have excluded them unless or until I can find one within the range of the other closest dealers.

Not having any previous history, well that I can remember except from childhood about brands, I have no bias entering the search. I only want the best tractor that I can afford that will do what I am looking for it to do with heavy emphasis on the tractor being reliable. I have been mostly concentrating on the Case IH, Deere and Kubota brands, but I am not limiting myself to those brands if another manufacturer would be a better fit to my needs.


I have sat in numerous manufacturers and models from 30HP up to 400HP (at a show, where I could avoid talking to the reps in detail), but without knowing where to start looking for the HP or PTO HP range that I would need to be in, it is impossible to narrow down what or which one, if any, felt better.
I don't want to go into a local dealer until I have it narrowed down to two or three models as I felt that doing such would weaken my ability to negotiate (the biggest weakness will still remain my newbie status), which is why I am looking for recommendations and such to expand my knowledge and hopefully tilt the negotiations in my favor or at least level them out to neutral before going to the a local dealer to negotiate.

If more information is needed, I will be try to include such in an additional posting

I look forward to hearing from the members here for recommendations, opinions and advice

Last but not least, thanks in advance for helping out a complete newbie as well as putting up with a question similar to that of thousands before mine.

 

[jeff9366]

1. mowing of grass Areas would total around 3 acres combined
1a. would like to use a 60 or 72 width attachment

For three acres I recommend a 72" mower, just to reduce your time commitment. To power at 72" mower you need around 35-hp at the PTO, which will mean around 45-hp rated diesel engine. If you want a groomed appearance you will need a maintained sharp Bush Hog, NOT used for brush, or a FINISH MOWER.

Too heavy a tractor will rut your turf.

2. Brush Cutting Area would initially be roughly 20 acres followed by additional occasional for maintenance of that area as well as a limited number of new areas that would likely not exceed 1 acre in size
2a. would like to use a 60 or 72 width attachment

Twenty acres is a lot of ground. If it is in the budget, I would go for a 12' 'batwing' bush hog/rotary cutter, if it will pass between obstructions such as trees and boulders. However, you would need approximately 65-hp PTO to power same. I would not consider it practical, time wise, to maintain twenty acres with a 72" swath mower.

(I can't conceive of twenty acres without trees too large for a rotary cutter to handle. You will probably need to hire a specialized LAND CLEARING/RIGHT OF WAY CLEARING company for twenty acres. These firms can deal with your stumps.)

3. Tilling Rotor tilling Area would initially be around 2 acres followed by very limited increases that would likely be less than a ï½½ acre in size
3a. would like to use a 60 or 72 width attachment.

Two acres will be reasonable work for either width tiller.

4. Disk/Harrow disk No predefined area at the moment, plans would include the use of a harrow disk set for making/breaking new ground for crops (mostly) and creation of fire breaks (secondary)
4a. would like to use a 72 or 84 width attachment

Unless really heavy, pan diameter of 24" or more, Tandem Disc Harrows are not intended for breaking ground. Tandem Disc harrows are a form of TILLER, which mix soil, best used in established fields, especially long fields.

OFFSET DISC HARROWS can break ground but are not nearly as satisfactory as Tandem Disc Harrows for leaving a relatively flat result.

(Think of Disc Harrows primarily in terms of Disc Diameter, which is where the weight is.)

Consider hiring someone to break the ground with a plow, then use a 22" pan diameter Tandem Disc Harrow for sequential preparation, possibly with a Drag/Chain harrow towed behind. If you disc annually with a heavy disc, you only need the ground broken once.

Other implement options: Moldboard Plow or a Disc Plow, the latter for especially rocky ground.
Moldboard plowing is an advanced tractor skill.

5. Post hole digging and Post hole driving Would be used heavily initially and then for routine maintenance of a large fencing system
5a. would like to use 6" 12" and 18" auger bits

PHD's do not require much power.

6. Front end Loader would be used for a wide variety of jobs/needs; gravel and sand placement/moving; moving of fallen trees/brush; removing pallets from trucks, moving pallets around the ranch and general usage
6a. Need to be able to lift pallets off trucks weighing in the range of 2,200 (bare minimum) to 4,200 lbs (maximum) with a I壇 be happy medium capacity of 2,500 lbs +/- but larger capacity would be great.

The FELs outfitted on most 45-hp tractors will lift 2,200 pounds, when safely ballasted with 1,500-2,000 pounds mounted on the 3-Pt. hitch. Tractor FEL lift capacity decreases very quickly with lift height. With large wheels in the rear and small wheels in front, tractors want to teeter-totter forward, then topple, with heavy loads on the FEL. Tractor front axles are relatively light, compared to tractor rear axles, where most tractor work is connected.

You can MOVE heavier loaded pallets with a 3-Pt hitch mounted pallet fork, but only lift the heavy pallets a few inches.

4,200 pound, truck-height lift is FORK LIFT work, rather than tractor work. (Fork lifts have equal size wheels, rear engines and can tilt loads back toward the machine.)

Regardless, you need SSQA (Skid Steer Quick Attach) pallet forks which attach directly to the FEL arms. Pallet forks that attach for the bucket are unsuitable for the loads stated.

7. Pulling logs

Pulling logs requires only modest power. Tall rear tractor wheels provide tremendous mechanical advantage.



FOUR WHEEL DRIVE is essential for the tasks you have outlined and for hills.

I think you need a GRAPPLE (plus two extra hydraulic ports to operate the grapple) as part of your initial tractor order. Grapples require SSQA.

Budget for this new tractor will be a minimum of $40,000. In some states (my Florida) ag equipment is sales tax exempt.

You will need several hundred hours tractor operating experience before you can handle all the tasks outlined SAFELY and with confidence. Operating a 45+hp tractor has little in common with operating a car or truck. Lifting heavy pallets off trucks with a tractor is potentially hazardous.

Something in the 45 hp range will do everything you wanted except lift 4,500 pounds. Something in the 45 hp range could lift your minimum requirement of 2,500 pounds.

TYPES OF DISC HARROW LINK: Agriculture | Tufline

MONROE TUFLINE ALSO OFFERS DISC PLOWS.

 

[MAN IN BLACK]

You are looking at a utility model in the 65-75 engine HP.
Below that, you won't have the lifting capacity you want.
Don't go compact...go for utility ag tractor...heavier,stronger buit and better hydraulic capacities.
Tractor and loader, expect to pay around 40 000$, 72" finish mower,tiller and rotary cutter...around 3000$ each for heavy duty machines.
Don't go cheap...buy good quality implements.
Hope this helps a little !
Keep us posted

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I'm thinking 75-90hp to get the FEL capacity you specify (but if regularly doing lifting north of 3500lbs get a skidsteer or full size TLB) and the slight 'overkill' you desire. For nice UTs in this HP range I think many people would see JD, Case, and Kubota as likely choices (although do some searches for specific JD models as there has possibility been some quality control issue there).
Being a virgin, it will be especially important to find a good dealer with a LARGE service department including mobile service trucks. You're looking at spending a LOT of money so the dealer should be willing to spend a LOT of time with you and know their products inside-out.

Ag tires, lots of weights, at least 3 rear remotes, a third fuction on the loader, SSQA.

20ac with a 7ft shreader sounds like tedium to me. Ask Dieselcrawler

 

[4570Man]

Something in the 45 hp range will do everything you wanted except lift 4500 pounds. Something in the 45 hp range could lift your minimum requirement of 2500 pounds. I know you said new, but a now discontinue JD 110 would fit your needs with a lift capacity of 2700 pounds. A Kubota M59 has a lift capacity of 3900 pounds.

 

[MF283]

I'll agree with Man in Black on the HP to be real safe on the lifting requirement's even though it could be done with less. 4WD is a good choice, i mow 25 acres with a 7' bush hog, it can be done in a day, i normally take a couple days just for the seat time & stagger the regrowth of the separate fields.
Brands, i'm a JD guy myself, the Kubota & IH are good tractors as well.
Dealers, which one makes you feel the most comfortable, has a record of great service(ask adjoining ranchers) & ask them to DEMO a unit before purchasing, that is a plus. Every purchase i've made, i signed a loaner form & they brought it to my house for a trial run, that's service.
It will be interesting to follow this thread & see your results.

Ronnie

 

[murphy1244]

You need a mower and a tractor.

 

[jeff9366]

Something in the 45 hp range will do everything you wanted except lift 4,500 pounds. Something in the 45 hp range could lift your minimum requirement of 2,500 pounds.

From 17-hp to 60-hp HST (Hydrostatic) transmission is an option on all tractors.

Over 60-hp you have a choice of 'manual' transmissions, no HST.

HST has 'automatic' compression braking on hills, which should be important to you. As you have probably read, tractors have brakes only on the rear wheels. When going downhill without 4-WD engaged you have minimal braking without HST.

Starting uphill, HST generates max torque at begining engine RPMs.

Two goods reasons to opt for HST transmission in hilly situations.

 

[DK35vince]

HST has 'automatic' compression braking on hills, which should be important to you. As you have probably read, tractors have brakes only on the rear wheels. When going downhill without 4-WD engaged you have minimal braking without HST.

Not sure I understand this.
A gear drive in the proper gear also has engine braking down hill.
Also why would HST have better braking downhill without 4 WD than a gear model ???

 

[concernedcitizen]

First of all, Thank you to everyone who has replied already and taken the time to answer this newbies questions.

I was able to have a discussion last night with a town neighbor, we did so at the local pub, so its just possible (lol) that I might have mis-interpreted something that was said or that he might have been inebriated for at least part of the discussion on tractors that we had, but I have managed to find two tractor types that I am interested in. Two are from one manufacturer and cover two different levels of the spectrum and one is from a different manufacturer. I am apparently tractor dumb and/or tech incompetent that I was unable to find similar models of the John Deere brand (with the exception of the lawn mowers, lol) so maybe the Deere fans can point me in the right direction based off the other models and manufacturers that I will list below.

I have also decided that I believe it would be best for me to purchase a dedicated mower for the duties of lawn mowing. I have looked into these and have found the following brands and models.

Option #1 - John Deere - Model X739
Option #2 - Kubota Z series - Z700
Option #3 - Hysqvarna M-ZT - While not nearly as nice (with my limited knowledge) they are less than half the price as the other two options, so even if I had to buy two of them it would still be cheaper, but if they are junk that breakdown then that is not worth any potential savings

Mower Question - Which one would you choose and why?



I have a strong feeling that the two types of tractors (by types I mean in numbers of HP/PTO HP) are very different, but the one thing that irks me more than just about anything else is having to buy something again because I did not buy big enough for the future, so please keep that in mind when you see and may even laugh at the difference in tractors that I've been looking at. I also am heeding the advice of looking for a dedicated pallet lifter/loader for the pallet work that I will need to be doing. Thank you all for pointing that out to me. By going with a separate machine, although more expensive, I am able to get the lifting capacity that I really wanted, which is upwards of 8,000 lbs and not need to put those hours on the tractor.

The first one I started looking at was the Case IH 55C T4 cab and here comes the BUT. this made me have new questions (i'll list them below separately)

The next tractor that I am looking at is the Case IH 100C Cab - This was influenced by last nights drinking neighbor. He indicated that pretty much everything he does on his property and that I talked about wanting to do in the entire conversation would be covered with a large amount of growing potential ready to go should I later decide to venture deeper waters or bigger attachments, such as round hay bales/bailing.

The last tractor that I am looking at is the Kubuta M9960

Now the best news so far for me is that after negotiations with the wife, I have her approval and support, even for the expensive models listed, the best part is it only cost me 5 square feet added onto to her closet space for the new house. I think I made out like a bandit on that deal :thumbsup: :cool2:

I limited it to these three manufacturers because they are the three that are closest (closest being a relative term as each are over an hour and a half away, just oddly in different directions). I will however take the great advice of making sure the dealer I end up purchasing from allows me a Demo (thank you MF283) and also has mobile service trucks (thank you lukestafford).


Now for the main question - Will any or all of these provide the power and ability to do what I'm looking to do (as posted in my first posting above)? I'm pretty confident that all of them will, just looking for confirmation from experienced people.


Q2 - On the Case IH 55C, is the CVT a good thing or bad thing for a newbie? I searched and searched and the more I searched the more confused I became with regards to the CVT being good or bad, benefits and drawbacks, etc.

Q3 - Can any of the Deere fans, point me in the direction of comparable Deere model tractors, please and thank you.

Q4 - If you could have any of the ones mentioned (or a comparable Deere model that I was not able to find), which one would you choose for yourself and why?

Again Thanks to everyone who has and might take the time to educate the newbie (me) and provide their insight, recommendations and opinions.