Buying Advice A tractor for 35 wooded acres

   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres #1  

ripHST

Silver Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
109
Location
Ithaca, NY
Tractor
TYM T474
Hi all,

A couple of things to start: first is to acknowledge those that welcomed me when I posted my "new to the forum" message a few weeks back. They gave me some great things to think about as I started researching my first tractor purchase...second is a general observation about the forum, I'm new to tractors in my adult life but not new to forums and I've got to say that I'm really impressed by the folks here. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast and am a member of many motorcycle forums and while most of the folks there are great and are very knowledgeable, you always get some trolls and generally ill tempered folks just waiting to cause trouble. I've seen none of that here. Just very nice folks imparting their knowledge while be respectful of differing opinions. I'm not blowing smoke...it's really very different here...at least so far. ;)

My needs have changed slightly since that first post. I had my eye on 11ish acres at the time and didn't end up getting that. Since then I found another lot and am under contract on that (closing in May) so it should be where I end up. It's 35 wooded acres, but with (4) connected ponds through the middle of it totaling about 6 acres I'd judge. It's mostly hardwood, but with a few small groves of pines here and there. One challenge I see now is the water basically splits the land in two and it may end up being difficult to get a tractor into the back half during the spring when it's most wet. We'll see, but I'm not too worried about that. My plan is to build on this land next year and use the next 12 months or so to finish a remodel on my current house and do as much site prep on the land as I can before I build the new house.

Okay...the point of the whole thing, the tractor. I need something to help clear land for a driveway and build site and do as much of the driveway excavation as I can. The driveway will probably be 2-300 feet I would guess. I may also dig trenches for the power line and drainage. There's a bit of an understory of brush and saplings in some areas that would also need to be dealt with. Long term, I'll need something to deal with deadfall and possibly firewood, snow removal and gravel driveway maintenance. Longer term...I hope to build a couple of guest cabins on the property and will need some ATV trails for the little guy as he gets older.

I haven't driven anything yet, so I still have to do that, but I figured I'd ask some questions before I do so I'm at least somewhat educated before I walk in there. I've got a Kubota/New Holland dealer and a John Deere dealer within about 10 minutes, a Kioti dealer about 20 minutes away and an LS dealer and a M-F dealer each about 30 minutes away. Anything else is probably too far unless they had something really compelling to consider (I think there's a Yanmar and Mahindra dealer on the other side of the lake, maybe TYM, not sure).

This post is getting long so I'll skip to where I ended up to give you an idea of where I think I need to be..........I'm gravitating toward the LS (XG3037H, XR3037H or XR3135H) or Kioti CK3510H. I've visited both of these dealers and the JD dealer. All nice guys I could see myself doing business with. I haven't gotten quotes yet, but based on list price, I probably wouldn't go green, but I'll reserve further judgement/decisions until I get some real numbers and/or drive them. I'll visit the Kubota/NH dealer and the M-F dealer soon, but with what I've seen so far, it would probably be one of the tractors I mentioned above. We'll see. When I left the LS dealer I thought, that's the one (didn't have that feeling from the JD)....then I went to the Kioti dealer and thought, well maybe that's the one. This is going to be tough. The LS seems to be slightly better in all areas versus the Kioti (and all others) on paper, but the Kioti dealer is a little closer and they've got some good incentives right now (free loader, as with LS, but also some extra rebates and $1000 off a BH). I'll have to get a quote before I decide obviously.

Configuration.....other than the loader which is a no-brainer, I'll probably need a blade of some kind for grading and reading all these threads has convinced me I HAVE to have a grapple (but I'm looking for solutions that are less costly for doing what I have to do so let me know what you think) . The big question is whether I should consider a backhoe or not. I'm sure I'll be able to use it, and renting an excavator would be a PITA IMO...but that's a pretty expensive add-on, right? I guess I could just rent, just doesn't seem right to buy a nice tractor and then rent a piece of equipment, but the math probably says I should rent. What do folks who considered this think now that they've made their decision?

Okay, so what should I be looking for when I drive these things? I've already noticed the Kioti has a nice placement of the joystick...I can't remember how the LS tractor was set up. The Kioti didn't have split brakes, not sure how much that will be an issue for me. I saw a video on YouTube comparing the Kubota loader movement compared to another "lesser" brand and showing how much smoother the movements were when combining actions...that was pretty compelling, but not sure I have the skill to take advantage of such refinery. Basically.....I'm looking for input from you guys on stuff that you won't find on paper and may be difficult for a noob like me to notice in a relatively brief demo.....but any and all advice is gratefully accepted.

Wow...that got long....sorry. I've had this stuff rattling around in my head for a few weeks. If you've read this far...much appreciated.
 
   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres #2  
The BIG question is whether I should consider a backhoe or not.

Here is a link to the T-B-N archive using the search: BACKHOE OR NOT?

LINK: Google


I suggest hiring out the road construction and building site then base your tractor needs only on recurring tasks you have. Road construction requires a professional's experience.

Yes, a Backhoe will be a $7,000 option. Many on TBN feel a grapple is more useful and 1/2 the money.

I consider tractor options fungible. It is not which is good, it is which one or combination will give you the biggest bang for the buck. In turn, this is highly depend on your projected uses, which will change significantly once you begin operating your tractor.

You probably realize the Three Point Hitch is the #1 working part of the tractor. When a Backhoe is mounted the Three Point Hitch is covered and cannot be used.

The FEL+ bucket is the #2 working part of the tractor; rear-center drawbar is trailing #3 working part.

It is useful to your respondents to know your age. Suggestions for <35 years are different than suggestions for >60 years; important relative to mounting and removing a Backhoe.
 

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   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres #3  
I don't think a tractor in this size range is the appropriate tool to start clearing house lots of stumps or constructing 300' drives. The reason I say this is because of what I have seen on how this is done around here. First, whatever is digging your foundation will dig out the stumps. 2. The appropriate tool to dig out a driveway through wooded sections is either a dozer or tracked bucket loader. Here, (and I would think Ithaca is not much different) they dig down about a foot into virgin soil and over that they spread 18" of processed gravel. What is dug up are the beach ball size rocks along with roots. This kind of work would kill your typical size c.u.t. or utility size tractor.
I would let the rough stuff be and use construction equipment to get that done. After that, any tractor coming in at over 3000 lbs will do you just fine for that size acreage.
 
   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres #4  
With 35 wooded acres, I can see where a backhoe is going to be needed a lot for thinning out the underbrush/saplings, dead standing trees etc. I only have 11.2 acres and use my backhoe all the time even after 6 years of ownership. The first year or two it was almost a daily use to clear up the overgrown property. Lots of thickets that the trees were so close together that one could barely walk between them. I used the backhoe to dig up probably 75% of them so the others had room to grow. I think you may need to do the same thing. I also have lots of rocks that appear from time to time and over the years I have dug up many tons of them but I am not through yet because they still appear annually.
I also use the backhoe for making holes for planting trees, shrubs etc in the yard, plus trenching for water lines. It is much easier to just put in a remote hydrant rather than dragging 200 feet of hose for watering. So far I have added just one for myself but it was 350 feet distance. I used my backhoe to put in 4 hydrants for my brother in law and bury 4 animals plus one big danged dog(Great Dane) for another neighbor.

So far, I find that I can maintain a gravel drive way better with my Kubota B26 back dragging the gravel with the FEL better that using a rear blade. I think the landplanes would be of more use to you than a back blade.

One thing to look at in choosing your tractor other than comfort and layout of levers is the hydraulic pump capacity in GPM, higher the better.
 
   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres #5  
Hi all,

A couple of things to start: first is to acknowledge those that welcomed me when I posted my "new to the forum" message a few weeks back. They gave me some great things to think about as I started researching my first tractor purchase...second is a general observation about the forum, I'm new to tractors in my adult life but not new to forums and I've got to say that I'm really impressed by the folks here. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast and am a member of many motorcycle forums and while most of the folks there are great and are very knowledgeable, you always get some trolls and generally ill tempered folks just waiting to cause trouble. I've seen none of that here. Just very nice folks imparting their knowledge while be respectful of differing opinions. I'm not blowing smoke...it's really very different here...at least so far. ;)

You don't read the single lid vs dual lid grapple discussions do you:p

I wont jump on what tractor to get, you can see which ones I have.

I will say if you're going to prep ground and there are trees involved you'll need an excavator or a back-hoe. Also depending on what type of trenching you're thinking about for drainage/power/etc you'll need it there too. So buy a tractor and rent an excavator for a week-ish and you're half way to that BH so why not just take the plunge if you are financially able. I'd never be without a BH after having one, there is always a use even if it's just holding a log while you buck it up.

Grapples are a great tool, if you're clearing the road and building sites it will be a time saver for sure.

Honestly all the work you have listed sounds more like a small dozer might suit you better, pick up a used one and tear stuff up for a year or two then sell it for what you spent on it and pick up a tractor for "up keep" of all the work the dozer did.
 
   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Here is a link to the T-B-N archive using the search: BACKHOE OR NOT?

LINK: Google


I suggest hiring out the road construction and building site then base your tractor needs only on recurring tasks you have. Road construction requires a professional's experience.

Yes, a Backhoe will be a $7,000 option. Many on TBN feel a grapple is more useful and 1/2 the money.

I consider tractor options fungible. It is not which is good, it is which one or combination will give you the biggest bang for the buck. In turn, this is highly depend on your projected uses, which will change significantly once you begin operating your tractor.

You probably realize the Three Point Hitch is the #1 working part of the tractor. When a Backhoe is mounted the Three Point Hitch is covered and cannot be used.

The FEL+ bucket is the #2 working part of the tractor; center drawbar would be very trailing #3 working part.

It is useful to your respondents to know your age. Suggestions for <35 years are different than suggestions for >60 years; important relative to mounting and removing a Backhoe.

Thanks Jeff.....good thinking points. I've read a few of the BH threads....that's actually what got me thinking I should consider it. Many people saying you should get it...you'll find work to do with it, etc. The rational (non-toy seeking) part of my brain says that's a huge expense that can't be justified. probably true.....especially considering that there are some other options out there for the stump pulling task I have in mind. I saw a video on this medieval looking device on a little skid steer that was really impressive. But you make a good point.....if I can't do the whole driveway (probably can't), maybe there's no advantage to pulling the stumps. I guess what you're saying is that if they're bringing a dozer or heavy excavator in to dig down for the gravel, the stumps won't be much of a bother for them and I won't realize must savings in doing it for them....that kinda what you're getting at? I've got no experience with this so I can't say. I think it probably makes more sense to go after a grapple or something.....but are they really that expensive?! (half of $7k) ****. I was thinking $1500 or so. that spade you have on your bucket looks pretty handy.....I bet there's a bit of a learning curve with that, no? For a noob at least.

Age....hmmm, it comes to that, huh? 46 I think...I try not to dwell on that.
 
   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres
  • Thread Starter
#7  
I don't think a tractor in this size range is the appropriate tool to start clearing house lots of stumps or constructing 300' drives. The reason I say this is because of what I have seen on how this is done around here. First, whatever is digging your foundation will dig out the stumps. 2. The appropriate tool to dig out a driveway through wooded sections is either a dozer or tracked bucket loader. Here, (and I would think Ithaca is not much different) they dig down about a foot into virgin soil and over that they spread 18" of processed gravel. What is dug up are the beach ball size rocks along with roots. This kind of work would kill your typical size c.u.t. or utility size tractor.
I would let the rough stuff be and use construction equipment to get that done. After that, any tractor coming in at over 3000 lbs will do you just fine for that size acreage.

Hey arrow.....I think I actually responded to some of your comments in my response to Jeff....yeah, I suppose if I'm going to have to hire out the driveway (the builder I'm talking to typically includes that in his contracts), they'll make light work of the stumps, so maybe I'd be wasting my time. Longer term I might have to do some of that myself...but maybe there will be other options that will present themselves later. A BH is so cool though...you know. haha

Yeah the process here is similar to what you describe from what I understand....we don't have many huge rocks, just lots and lots of smaller ones.
 
   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres #8  
Hey arrow.....I think I actually responded to some of your comments in my response to Jeff....yeah, I suppose if I'm going to have to hire out the driveway (the builder I'm talking to typically includes that in his contracts), they'll make light work of the stumps, so maybe I'd be wasting my time. Longer term I might have to do some of that myself...but maybe there will be other options that will present themselves later. A BH is so cool though...you know. haha

Yeah the process here is similar to what you describe from what I understand....we don't have many huge rocks, just lots and lots of smaller ones.

Exactly. It just doesn't pay to beat up a new machine doing construction work. Nothing beats up any equipment more than woods and rocks. Grapples are very nice but you are communicating with someone who lives in the woods and has never had one.That's not to say I never wanted one but I have more time than money so I expend the former. I made other attachments to carry brush and slash and that includes moving a 50' circumference of dug and dumped tree stumps 200 yds .
If I had to choose, I'd opt for the hoe with a thumb just because of it's versatility.

If I can offer one piece of advice: whatever you get for attachments, bite the bullet and try to get them all at once. One tends to procrastinate and ends up not having much of anything. When I first moved here, a brand new logging winch cost $1800. A 12 ft dump trailer cost $2800. A backhoe cost $3500. Everything is now double these prices preventing me even more from ever owning them. You know that saying: "those with the most toys when they die wins"? Well I can tell you right now, I'll be lucky to place 6th
 

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   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres
  • Thread Starter
#9  
With 35 wooded acres, I can see where a backhoe is going to be needed a lot for thinning out the underbrush/saplings, dead standing trees etc. I only have 11.2 acres and use my backhoe all the time even after 6 years of ownership. The first year or two it was almost a daily use to clear up the overgrown property. Lots of thickets that the trees were so close together that one could barely walk between them. I used the backhoe to dig up probably 75% of them so the others had room to grow. I think you may need to do the same thing. I also have lots of rocks that appear from time to time and over the years I have dug up many tons of them but I am not through yet because they still appear annually.
I also use the backhoe for making holes for planting trees, shrubs etc in the yard, plus trenching for water lines. It is much easier to just put in a remote hydrant rather than dragging 200 feet of hose for watering. So far I have added just one for myself but it was 350 feet distance. I used my backhoe to put in 4 hydrants for my brother in law and bury 4 animals plus one big danged dog(Great Dane) for another neighbor.

So far, I find that I can maintain a gravel drive way better with my Kubota B26 back dragging the gravel with the FEL better that using a rear blade. I think the landplanes would be of more use to you than a back blade.

One thing to look at in choosing your tractor other than comfort and layout of levers is the hydraulic pump capacity in GPM, higher the better.

I hadn't even considered using a BH to thin overgrown areas.....you're right in that I'll have to deal with the same thing...it's pretty tight in spots and was figuring I'd have to do some of that by hand and then get in there with one of those grabbers to pull the bigger stuff out. Reaching in with a BH might be just the ticket.

One thing that I didn't mention before is that I want to clean things up, but with minimal impact. That is, I want to keep most of the trees beyond the build site. I'll need to take some out for maneuvering room of course and some general thinning will probably be in order, but I'm definitely not looking to clear huge areas. With a year to work on it, I figure I've got time to be careful and selective about what I clear.

Interesting what you say about back dragging with the FEL vs using a blade....I definitely need to read up on these ground implements. So many options and techniques that I know nothing about.

Thanks for the advice on the pump flow. That's definitely on my radar and one of the things I liked about the LS machines after hearing that it's important. Although I have to admit that I can't quite picture how that will limit my capabilities. Steering gets heavy while operating an implement? Does it affect drive at all?
 
   / A tractor for 35 wooded acres #10  
OP - Other than your building plans for NEXT year and a few cabins what do you figure on doing the 50 or so years AFTER?
Do you want to move trees in big pieces?
Clear the land and grow rice?
Buy a sailboat and cruise the world?

You mention
2-300 feet
driveway. If you live in the same Ithaca, New York where my daughter went to Cornell you do get a bit of snow, about 5 to 6 feet. I see you mention snow removal. How?
In addition to a backhoe you might want a snowblower.

I've about 250 yards of driveway, ranging from 8 yards wide to one paved area about 30 yards square. But it's in Mississippi. Having grown up in Northern Vermont I know what it's like to have to clear two or three feet of snow. It's worse than mowing a half acre with a manual push reel mower.

The last 5 winters here I've shoveled/plowed somewhere between zip and nada. Two snowfalls we had melted quickly. Monday it was 80 degrees here.

If your going to move trees be aware of their weight. A small tractor can probably move as much "tree" as a larger tractor, just in smaller pieces. For many people that is fine, if your cutting firewood. But if you want to MILL the lumber for dimensional wood you'll probably want trees that weigh about a ton or more. That requires a comparable lift capacity.

Let us know some more about your plans because for the most part we love to give advice. Just tread lightly when discussing how many lids on a grapple or pallets in fields.

/edit - that's worse than discussing the proper color of tractor :)
 
 
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