Comparison Understanding the Sub-Compact tractor choices.

[davrow]

We all know that in any activity of a tractor . . Steering is involved . .

Sorry, just don't see it. Other than mowing/mulching/brush hogging, steering is not done simultaneously with other hydraulic activities. FEL, straight in, straight out. Backhoe, stationary. Blading, does not need constant hydraulic flow. Snow blower, mostly not steering while actively blowing.

You can still steer at any RPM, so I just can't see saying "two pumps are better than one" if one is simply dedicated to steering.

Now one pump for your sprayer and one for your mulcher I could understand...

 

[AxleHub]

Yes ,but they share a "SINGLE" gear driven pump !!!

Dual hydraulic pumps is not unique to just 1 product or brand. Yanmar did it with theur Cub Cadet product already in 2006 and onward thru the 2013 model. And there are more.

Probably the best known single pump scut producer is kubota on their bx line. It is also why a bx needs to be revved up to get the fel to move with any speed . . As I recall a bx runs at 3200 rpm.

If Massey GC17xx product did not have the dual hydraulic pumps . . It would mimic the bx product pattern.

 

[Chooglin]

Well , I will try to explain this in a way that may make sense.

The 4.3 gpm is the flow at remotes , the remotes never see the full 6.3 gpm because 2 gpm are dedicated to the power steering !!!!...............look at the spec sheet !!

The gc series has a single pump , that feeds all hydrolics , if that's not the case , I will gladly eat my words !

 

[prichard]

You have to increase engine speed because that's where engines work. They, like your car, are not intended to operate at idle.

 

[AxleHub]

Well , I will try to explain this in a way that may make sense.

The 4.3 gpm is the flow at remotes , the remotes never see the full 6.3 gpm because 2 gpm are dedicated to the power steering !!!!...............look at the spec sheet !!

The gc series has a single pump , that feeds all hydrolics , if that's not the case , I will gladly eat my words !

Well you may be correct. I was just watching a you tube comparison of the gc1720 vs bx25d and it shows a dramatic difference in hydro effect between the 2 units for responsiveness and speed of movement. In that you tube of video the gc1720 at 1500 rpm moves about the same fel speed as the Kubota at 2500 rpm.

But if it isn't dual pumps . . Then how is there such a dramatic difference ?

I'll leave this particular point to smarter or more mechanical minds than me

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have always wondered about the importance of having a seperate steering pump. But then I am not a farmer. I guess, you don't realize how important it may be, until you suddenly don't have steering. You could be at the headland, raise your implement, go to steer and nothing!

 

[Chooglin]

But if it isn't dual pumps . . Then how is there such a dramatic difference ?

My guess would be , that MF uses different gearing , between the engine and the pump to allow the pump to run at the same rpm's as the competition without the engine running at the hire rpm's.........just a guess though !!!

 

[AxleHub]

My guess would be , that MF uses different gearing , between the engine and the pump to allow the pump to run at the same rpm's as the competition without the engine running at the hire rpm's.........just a guess though !!!

Knowing Kubota's skill at engineering etc. and how Yanmar used to hammer on Kubota's dependence on high rpms for responsiveness . . I'd guess long long ago Kubota would have changed their setup if it were as easy andvsimple as you suggest.

And you probably remember already years ago how poor flow used to effect steering issues on some scut and higher end lawn tractor issues at low rpms. I'm guessing if it truly is not dual hrdraulic pumps on the Massey units . . then Iseki has out-engineered Kubota . . and that would be quite a feat also.

 

[jenkinsph]

Very common to have one pump with two isolated sections with different sized gears. For the MF GC 1715 it has one pump with two sections, one section is for steering with 2.0 gpm flow at rated speed and one section with wider gears with 4.8 gpm flow for everything else. The suction side usually has a shared manifold, the outlet or pressure sides are separate with their own relief valves back to the tank. All of this is the "norm" for open center systems today.

Closed center systems usually have one full pressure variable flow pump. Most will have a priority valve so that if the pressure drops below a fixed setting say 1900 psi the flow is all directed to steering (and brakes in some cases).

 

[AxleHub]

While the SubCompact (scut) market has in recent years been an active part of tractor sales . . a more interesting detail would be if sales this year by brand are changing compared to last year ? In other words, are some brands taking marketshare away from others or are numbers of sales growing because buyers are actively adfing new purchases and expanding the total scut sales for everyone?

Recently in another thread, a poster said a very small Massey dealer had sold 14 units in 2015 and already by August this year they were over 50. Obviously the market has a bunch of dealers and brands in it that werent in scut sales 10 years ago. Has it been a bubble or a healthy expansion of the market ? If that tiny Massey dealer I referenced went from 14 last year to already 50 this year . . Is that negatively effecting the other dealers in that area like kubota and jd sales etc. etc. ? Or are they all selling more ?

Anyone hearing info on scut activity at their dealerships ?