Split Brakes on a CUT. Necessary?

[Wellarmedlamb]

I posted a little while ago that I am looking for a Small to Medium CUT for hardscaping/landscaping around my new-to-me house and on rare occasion digging broken water lines for a small drinking water system (when the 580C is too big). I've been making a list of things I won't go without: 4WD, HST, 2,200+ tractor weight, full CAT1 hitch, third valve up front, etc.

Any reason I should consider non-HST? I won't really be mowing at all and the work will be mostly loader/grapple, rake, backhoe and plowing/blowing snow.

Split brakes are on that list due to how much I use them in the 580C. Should this be a sticking point or is it not that important in this size machine?

I am really liking the Kioti 2610HST and 3510HST for their capability and pricing but they don't have split brakes. I'd also like the thing that JD calls E-Throttle but I don't know what the general term is for this. When you push the forward or reverse pedal, the more you push it the higher the revs go. This is great for loader type work.

Within 15 minutes of my house I have:
John Deere
Kioti
Massey Ferguson
Kubota
Mahindra
New Holland

I'm also considering LS Tractors for their price and capability even though they're an hour away.

Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated, especially related to the split brake question.

 

[wsc9tt]

My old Ford 2000 didn't have a locking differential and I used the split brakes a LOT to keep traction on snow or pulling logs.
The other reason for split brakes is to make very tight turns. This is especially important on tricycle tractors.

I now use a new 50hp HST Kubota. It does have split brakes, but I don't use them much. It has a diff lock which works much better than the brakes. I do occasionally use them to make tighter turns, but with 4WD and a heavy front end it doesn't make as big of a difference. Also AG tires making steering like that work better.


So personally I wouldn't make that a sticking point.

Things I really appreciate
- top-n-tilt
- 3pt lift bar extenders
(those 2 make adding attachments much easier)

- quick attach for front attachments
- position control
- 4WD

 

[Wellarmedlamb]

Also AG tires making steering like that work better.

Things I really appreciate
- top-n-tilt

- quick attach for front attachments
- position control

I'll most likely get industrial tires as the acceptable in between. I'll periodically be driving over my or someone else's yard.

My main use for split brakes is steering when back dragging with down pressure or cutting. Also, when front wheels plow straight in mud(this happens a lot in the 2WD backhoe).

The top-n-tilt has been suggested often. Does this require an extra valve in the rear?

In terms of quick attach...one thing that is pushing me away from JD is the proprietary loader attachment vs most others using skid steer type.

To what are you referring as "position control"?

Thanks!

 

[wsc9tt]

top-n-tilt requires 2 rear remotes (valves). One to control the top link and other to control one of the 2 side links.

Just picking a site a random this place has good pictures to show you what it does: Fit Rite Hydraulics - fitritehydraulics.com

It allows you to change the blade angle on your box blade or rear blade. And to set the angle side to side on your implement. But when you are hooking up attachments it allows you to raise and lower the two lift arms independently.


Position control... let me quote someone else who explained this well:

Without position control, the lever is centered and when you raise or lower the 3-point by moving the lever forward or backwards, it continues in an up or down movement until you center the lever again. The distance you move the lever may affect the speed with which it raises or lowers, but not where it stops. So you have to just go by visually watching to stop it where you want it.

With position control, the slot for the lever is usually numbered (1 to 8 in my case), with 1 being all the way down and 8 being all the way up. If you want to lower it to 4, move the lever there, the hitch stops at that point and the lever stays where you left it. It's much easier to make small adjustments in the height of the hitch, and if you raise it, it's much easier to lower it back to the same height again.

In other words, position control is a VERY NICE feature and I really like it, but it's not absolutely necessary.

All the old tractors I haved used from the 60s had position control so I was surprised that some brands have tractors without it.

 

[WM75Guy]

I have them on the TC and have never unlatched the pedals to use them. The Boomer 8N does not have split brakes.

 

[N2DFire]

I'd also like the thing that JD calls E-Throttle but I don't know what the general term is for this. When you push the forward or reverse pedal, the more you push it the higher the revs go.

Kioti refers to this as a "Linked Pedal Kit" and the discussion from the Kioti forum below is about all I know about it. LOL
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/351969-ck-3510-linked-pedal-kit.html


As for the Split Brakes question - My answer would pretty much be the same as wsc9tt - on our old 8N I used them to control wheel spin or to make a tighter turn.

The main points of why no split brakes is:
On the 8N
- 2wd so the front tires are ribbed and (even when turned full lock) they will "drag" sideways slightly when using the brakes to turn sharply
- Also no drive train / differential so the tires are free to spin at their own speeds so the outer one can spin faster than the inner one with no resistance.
- No FEL & lighter front end also allows the slippage to occur.
- No rear diff lock

On the CK35
- 4wd with Ag tires on the front so they catch the turf and don't allow that sideways slippage
- differential won't allow the outer wheel to spin that much faster, even in 2wd mode
- Just generally heavier front end already plus add weight of FEL = no slippage
- Has rear differential lock

On the CK - it has a movable tab that locks the brake pedals together. Dad kept locking them & I kept unlocking them. Finally after trying to do tighter turns when mowing I just came to the conclusion that using the brake really wasn't letting me turn that much tighter so now we pretty much leave ours linked together.

We're coming up on the 3 year mark (and roughly 200 hours) and if I had to pick one single thing I would change or do different - it would have been to pick a HST instead of gear.

The only real reason I can give for picking Gear over HST is if the extra 3 or 4 PTO Horsepower you lose is really critical.


As to your brand list - we compared every one you listed as well as Branson (LS was likewise too far away from us to make the trip to see in person but we did "shop" them online and I was impressed with what I saw there). For us the Kioti ended up being the best bang for the buck and we've been very please with it, that being said there is nothing "wrong" with any of the other brands you listed and as long as you're happy with the price, feature set, and your physical comfort on the machine - you'll be OK with any of those listed.

Also it is my understanding from seeing it somewhere in these forums, JD can supply you with the standard SSQA instead of their proprietary one you just might have to order your tractor instead of buying off the lot.

My suggestions of must haves:
- Get the rear remotes (as many as possible, generally will be two at this size range) and a 3rd function for the FEL included in the price & installed by the dealer up front. Cheaper in the long run for stuff you'll most likely add anyway. (Rear remotes would be next on my list of Do Different after HST. I can still add them for about $800 but probably could have worked them into the sale a bit cheaper)

- The extended links were standard on the CK series, option on the new CK10 series. I loved them till I bought a Quick Hitch now I never get to use them. If you're ok with modifying old implements to fit and/or will be buying new implements I'd say skip the extended links and use the Top & Tilt with a Quick Hitch.

Good Luck & Happy shopping

 

[jenkinsph]

I agree with N2DFire on most everything but would say to buy the optional telescopic links whether you think you need them or not. I also use quick hitches but for the occasional implement that may not fit having the telescopic links saves me time and grief.

 

[RjCorazza]

From my International Harvester model H days, I have always considered independent brakes to be a requirement on tractors. In reality I have rarely used them on my last 2 modern machines, mostly for steering while snow plowing. I will add that my previous L3410 Kubota had the brakes and HST pedal on the right side, which made using the brakes for steering very cumbersome.
You mention a weight requirement in your post... Most people fail to consider that certain jobs require a heavy machine. My current L4060 is way overkill for my needs horsepower - wise, but for plowing I really appreciate the weight!

 

[Wellarmedlamb]

Great advice all! I'm leaning heavily toward the:

Kioti CK3510 HST, TLB, ROPs, Industrial tires.
Options(dealer or aftermarket):
-Floor mat.
-Horn:
-Rear remotes(1 detent, 1 spring).
-HST linked throttle.
-Work lights.
-Third function valve.
-Tooth Bar.
-Box blade.
-Grapple.
-Snow Plow/Dozer blade-hydraulic.
-Top-n-tilt.
-Extendable lower links.
-Rimguard.
-Forks.
-Tire chains?

I'm sure I'll think of other things and I may have to shrink the initial listed depending on money.

I do wish it had split brakes but hopefully I won't mind too much if I go his route.

 

[boggen]

i use split brakes way to much. and they need to be on the opposite foot of the go/gas/throttle/hst peddle/s. if it does not have split brakes, then just drag it to the scrap yard, i do not want to see it nor use it.

from FEL work, to getting un-stuck, to turning sharper, to other. split brakes required.