Kioti TLB : ck2610hst vs ck3510hst

[Wellarmedlamb]

I've pretty much settled on buying one of the title listed setups. Will have loaded tires and either backhoe or ballast box anytime loader is in use.

Identical 2,700lb tractors except:

Ck2610hst: 25hp, PTO 21.5hp, no engine computer, no tier 4, loader lift roughly 1150lbs, loader breakout force roughly 2000lbs.

Ck3510hst: 35hp, PTO 28hp, engine computer, tier 4 DPF, loader lift roughly 1850lbs, loader breakout force roughly 3500lbs, $2000 more.

This tractor will be used for personal, residential work. Clearing land, moving trees and brush, periodic backhoe work, post hole digging, plowing snow. I'll have a grapple, box blade, forks, post hole digger, etc. Maybe a 3pt mower later in it's life. I don't want to upgrade later but want the one that will work the best.

Is tier 4 and the Regen system really as scary as people make it out to be?

It may sit for weeks or be used every day at times and will need to start in very cold weather. Would one engine be better at these conditions?

Will I be able to utilize the lift capability of the ck3510?

Thanks!

 

[norman311]

I looked at the ck2610hst vs ck3510hst and decided on the ck3510hst. Have similar requirement but no snow to deal with. My thinking was that the ck2610hst would struggle on hills. If your running a rotary brush mower, the PTO might have enough power but you still need to enough power to get everything up/down the hills, that unless your property is mostly flat. Figure having some hp on reserve is good. Also figure I'd be less likely to overwork the tractor and have problems. Haven't heard of any tier4 problems on this model in my research. Hoping dealer will have tractor delivered this Wed. Woot!

 

[Wellarmedlamb]

. Hoping dealer will have tractor delivered this Wed. Woot!

Awesome! Fingers crossed! Did you get a backhoe or ballast box? Getting the rear tires filled?

I would greatly appreciate it if you would be willing to post your thoughts on the KL4010 loader once you've had a chance to use it.

Particularly:

1. How easily does the lift capacity overcome tractor weight/ballast.

2. I've seen complaints that it's difficult to accomplish 2 function lifting of the bucket or forks. (Ie. Keeping level while raising or lowering)


Thanks!

 

[N2DFire]

1. How easily does the lift capacity overcome tractor weight/ballast.

2. I've seen complaints that it's difficult to accomplish 2 function lifting of the bucket or forks. (Ie. Keeping level while raising or lowering)

We have the older CK35 which has a lot of similarities so I hope you don't mind my input.

1) The more I think as I write, I'm less sure I understand the question. If you're asking how easily will it lift a rear tire under load then the base answer is - pretty easy, BUT ... it's still a function of how much load you're trying to lift.

If I recall correctly the Loader Manual (not the tractor manual) on our unit called for 700 lbs counterweight IN ADDITION TO loaded rear tires; however this is to get the MAXIMUM lift from the loader. If you're moving brush (not whole trees), roots, small debris, etc. you most likely will not be putting a large amount of weight on the loader and therefore wouldn't need a lot of counterweight.

My advice - have all four tires filled and get a HD box blade and use that as your counterweight. Compare it's weight to what the Loader Manual calls for. Then if you see that you need to get that last extra bit of lift capacity - then look into adding weight to the BB or getting a dedicated counterweight.

2) Difficult is a relative term. Brain Surgery is difficult until you become proficient at it (I haven't in case you're curious lol).

The issue with the loader control (and it's not just a "Kioti Thing") is the gpm flow output of the pump vs the demand of the system. The Lift/Lower function always has priority, next comes the Curl/Dump, then it goes out the Power Beyond Port (which would be your grapple lid control if you go the true 3rd function route) to the rear of the tractor to the rear remotes (if you add them) and the 3pt lift system and then back to the tank.

If you're "heavy handed" on the stick then you open the Lift/Lower valve and it eats all the flow and you get no Curl/Dump. If you have a light touch and feather into it you can get both at once (but at a slower pace). It can be done, it just comes with time, practice, and proper technique.


As for which tractor, I have no experience with the Tier 4 stuff so I can't speak to that portion of your question but for otherwise identical weight / size tractors I think you'll be happier in the long run with the higher HP. It is very seldom I have ever heard someone say they wished they had bought a smaller tractor.

 

[Wellarmedlamb]

Thanks for the input! The only loader I've ever run is an old 580C backhoe. It's pretty simple to feather the loader and keep it level as you're raising the bucket. I was just concerned about the complaints that it's next to impossible to do this on these smaller tractors. If it simply comes down to practice and skill then I'm not worried.

As far as the tractor size, I'm surprised at the number of dealers who quickly voice their concern about both the increased KL4010 lift capacities and the computerized 35hp engine over the old school 25hp engine.

I am and have been set on the ck3510 but thought I'd ask for opinions/experiences.

 

[norman311]

Awesome! Fingers crossed! Did you get a backhoe or ballast box? Getting the rear tires filled?

I would greatly appreciate it if you would be willing to post your thoughts on the KL4010 loader once you've had a chance to use it.

We got a Gearmore Box Blade as the counterweight. We did order the backhoe which has taken forever to get to the dealer. Minor pain point there but rather get it now rather than need one down the road and not have the option. Been debating filling the tires, I'm in a warm climate so I can get away with just using water with some kind of rust inhibitor added in. Loaded tires means more weight to move around so you'll need more hp.

My plan is to beat up and used the Box Blade for "bulldozer" type work. Then use the loader for moving material around rather than using it for any kind of digging. Rather wear out or break a box blade than have problems with the loader. I'll probably get a root grapple in 6 months or so and anticipate the grapple will be used more often than the loader. We have a lot ... a lot of land to clear. 61 acres of rocky hilly terrain that we'll eventually be able to use to plant avocado or citrus trees.

 

[dadster4]

I think you're right in leaning towards the 3510 vs the 2610. The loader specs alone would be enough to convince me.
It seems the only people who fear DPF are the ones who don't have it on their tractor, it's only an issue for those who run too low rpms or don't run long enough to get up to operating temperature, which will reduce time between regens. I have used mine in temps from -20 degrees to over 90 with no starting or operating problems for over 250 hours.
For loader work I keep a 470 lb. box blade on the 3 point, which is fine for a full bucket of dirt and gravel. For loads with the forks, I add a 55 gallon barrel of water on the boxblade for an additional 400 lbs. of counterweight, which is necessary for loads up to 1300 lbs. to keep all four wheels on the ground.

 

[4570Man]

I'd go with the bigger one. The loader capacity is a lot better and you'll never wish you had less.

 

[Wellarmedlamb]

Thanks! Headed over to the local dealership today or tomorrow to get an in-person quote.

 

[DK35vince]

Is tier 4 and the Regen system really as scary as people make it out to be?

I don't have a lot of experience with the tier 4 regen stuff, but what little I do doesn't impress me.
At work we have a 2015 model skid steer. At around 800 hours it was in the shop for 2 weeks (ATS failure or some such thing,wouldn't let it regen)
Also uses considerable more fuel that our 2013 model that is nearly identical, except for the pollution system.
My new to me work truck was just in the shop last week (you guessed it, wouldn't regen- $700 repair.)