25HP HST tractors and low range speed.

[Rock Crawler]

I'm going to put my dunce hat on for a moment and ask what may be a idiot level question....

What is a "Shuttle Shift" vs a manual shift? I have been (incorrectly???) assuming that shuttle shift was just tractor lingo for manual shift.

Does shuttle mean it is synchronized and can be shifted during motion? Or does the term shuttle have some other meaning that I am unaware of?

I have no fear of a manual as I have owned manual cars and trucks on and off for the last 35 years. Yes, sadly I am old enough to admit that :-(

 

[Olympus]

There is shuttle shift and then power shuttle shift. Power shuttle means it can be switched from forward to reverse without a clutch and while moving. Regular shuttle shift means you need to clutch between forward and reverse, but you can still be moving (just not super fast). Shuttle shift means you have an equal number of forward gears as you have have reverse gears. There is a matching reverse gear for every forward gear. My current LS has 3 ranges and 4 gears in each range, which makes it a 12-speed. And since it's a shuttle shift, I have an equal number of reverse gears too, so 12 forward and 12 reverse gears.

A standard gear tractor will only have 1 reverse gear for each range. Kioti and most Kubotos I've seen do not have a true shuttle shift. They will only have one reverse gear for each range and you'll have to shift in and out of gears to go from forward to reverse.

With LS, there is a shuttle lever on the dash that's F-N-R and a separate gear shift on your right for gears 1-4. I can keep my gear shift in the same gear and only have to use the shuttle lever when going from forward to reverse. I don't have to change any gears. That's why a shuttle is faster than a standard gear tranny and almost as fast as a hydrostatic tranny.

 

[Rock Crawler]

There is shuttle shift and then power shuttle shift. Power shuttle means it can be switched from forward to reverse without a clutch and while moving. Regular shuttle shift means you need to clutch between forward and reverse, but you can still be moving (just not super fast). Shuttle shift means you have an equal number of forward gears as you have have reverse gears. There is a matching reverse gear for every forward gear. My current LS has 3 ranges and 4 gears in each range, which makes it a 12-speed. And since it's a shuttle shift, I have an equal number of reverse gears too, so 12 forward and 12 reverse gears.

A standard gear tractor will only have 1 reverse gear for each range. Kioti and most Kubotos I've seen do not have a true shuttle shift. They will only have one reverse gear for each range and you'll have to shift in and out of gears to go from forward to reverse.

With LS, there is a shuttle lever on the dash that's F-N-R and a separate gear shift on your right for gears 1-4. I can keep my gear shift in the same gear and only have to use the shuttle lever when going from forward to reverse. I don't have to change any gears. That's why a shuttle is faster than a standard gear tranny and almost as fast as a hydrostatic tranny.

So lets assume that you have a MMM under your tractor and are cutting the grass and need to mow a row, turn 180 degrees and mow back.

You start out by selecting a gear that is good for your property (hills/angles) and you throttle up and release the clutch smoothly to begin motion just like any manual.

You travel to the end of the row, you push the clutch and the brake to stop motion, then move the dash mounted forward/reverse lever to reverse and again release the clutch to back up and turn followed by pushing the clutch and brake to stop it. Then you move the dash mounted lever back to the forward position and release the clutch to start the new row of cutting.

Did I understand that correctly? Are you using the clutch to stop, or are you sliding the dash mounted lever into neutral and using the brake to stop? I am assuming that your still using the clutch for each time you transition the dash mounted lever (shuttle lever) from F to N to R? Or does that lever allow you to go from not moving to moving with a slow feed of the lever similar to the feel of a hydro?

 

[Olympus]

When you get to the end, you'd clutch and pull the lever backward to R. You could brake if you wanted, but you can still shift the shuttle to R while you're still moving forward a little. Then let out the clutch and you're going backward. Then clutch and push the shuttle back to F and let out on the clutch again and you're back to moving forward in the same gear you were already in.

 

[Rock Crawler]

....so.... who has a power shuttle option, and how do they pull off a forward to reverse swap without the use of a mechanical clutch to stop motion of the transmission? Is it some sort of mechanical/hydro hybrid device? Does it start moving without the clutch by easing on the forward lever and using the hydraulic part of the hybrid system....? Man, your making head go boom! :shocked:

 

[Olympus]

....so.... who has a power shuttle option, and how do they pull off a forward to reverse swap without the use of a mechanical clutch to stop motion of the transmission? Is it some sort of mechanical/hydro hybrid device? Does it start moving without the clutch by easing on the forward lever and using the hydraulic part of the hybrid system....? Man, your making head go boom! :shocked:

Power shuttles are not offered until you get up over 40HP.

The regular shuttle shift is not really that different in practical use except you're clutching with your foot before you pull the shuttle lever.

 

[DK35vince]

A standard gear tractor will only have 1 reverse gear for each range. Kioti and most Kubotos I've seen do not have a true shuttle shift. They will only have one reverse gear for each range and you'll have to shift in and out of gears to go from forward to reverse.

They do ? Must be looking at different models than I have.
Older DK models and the DK 10 series 8x8 shuttles.
The DK se series had 12x12 shuttles and the NX series has 24x24 shuttles

 

[Olympus]

They do ? Must be looking at different models than I have.
Older DK models and the DK 10 series 8x8 shuttles.
The DK se series had 12x12 shuttles and the NX series has 24x24 shuttles

I'm talking about the CK series that the OP is referring to. None of them have shuttle shift trannies.

The bigger DK series even have power shuttles, but again those are bigger machines.

 

[Rock Crawler]

I talked to the KIOTI dealer yesterday for about an hour, super nice fellow who gave me a lot of his time to play 100 questions. In the end his CK2510 will not work because it can not take the backhoe while the brackets for the mid mount mower are installed. I would need to drop the mower and then remove all mower brackets before I could back over the BH sub frame to install the BH. Then I would have to drop the BH and swap brackets back over to the MMM config. He says that if your good, you can make the swap in about an hour or so. With other branded options that have sorted this out so that it is a 10 minute swap and no tools required, I feel that the KIOTI removed itself from my list.

So that knocks me back to the following options:
Kubota B2601 for $28,500 TLB/MMM
Kubota B2301 for $27,000 TLB/MMM
LS XJ2025 for $23,500 TLB/MMM

~or~

Drop back down and really start to re-examine the subcompact offerings and give up on the idea of the larger framed units. If I were going to drop to the subs, I have a strong like for the MF GC1720 at $19,500... but I would have to expand the spread sheet across the offerings and start going out and touching/feeling/driving the machines to begin the process again as I eliminate them down.

Call me geeky, but I do like the fender mounted 12V phone charger inside the little glove box on the Kubota units... LOL... Something so little that catches my eye!

I must say, buying a tractor is much more intense than buying a pickup truck! I went out and bought my 2017 Ram Rebel after test driving the F-150, Silverado and Rebel over the course of 2 days. I've been researching tractors for 6 weeks now! I guess it could be because with tractors I started out at ZERO knowledge and have been trying to absorb and record information as fast as I can. It's like drinking from a fire hose!

 

[Olympus]

Couple questions. What do you need the backhoe for? And why do you want a mid mower as opposed to a zero turn mower?