A little help from the more informed

[oosik]

Three things stick in my mind from your initial post.

2-3 acres is an ENORMOUS garden. We started with a garden 100 x 150 - - right at 1/3 of an acre. Fortunately the wife and I were not working because that first summer was almost dawn to dusk in that dam garden. I have a 40 cu ft chest freezer downstairs that was PACKED full of frozen veggies that first year.

You have a lot of old fence posts to replace. If you are dealing with barbed wire - bypass all that hole digging etc, etc and put in T-133 steel posts. They are easily driven with a manual pounder. Even if your land is flat as a pool table - a manual pounder will out work anything hooked to your FEL. With an FEL pounder - too much time locating the tractor - can't be used on steep slopes - requires two to work the unit.

I had to replace all the posts here on my 80 acres - 1 1/2 miles of steel posts - one post every 12' - 660 posts and 6 miles of new barbed wire. Did it all by myself - took three months. This happened in 1983 - I was 34 years younger then also.

If you are planning on using your tractor, in the garden, for anything beyond rototilling in the spring and fall. Best you have a VERY detailed plan for the garden. What are you going to need the tractor for in the garden - will you be using it to cultivate - will you be creating raised rows with the tractor - will the tractor be used to harvest any of the crops.

To be successful using a tractor, beyond rototilling, a well thought out plan/layout will be required.

 

[newbury]

<snip> I am thinking used implements from CL/Bay and maybe 15 on the tractor.

About 5 yrs ago this time of year I tried the same thing. I was looking for a 40HP plus for $15K or less. I wanted a ton of lift on the 3pt and half a ton on the FEL.

Messed up on the tractor a bit and got a well maintained 50HP Kubota M4700 for $11.5K at a Public Service auction (plus "fees"). 2 tons on the 3 pt and 1 ton on the FEL.

Enough money left out of my budget for a new chipper.

But I had looked for over 6 months.

If you are seriously going to try to farm a market garden for profit in 2018 you need to get a reliable tractor and implements now.

The "sweet" spot in small Kubota tractors is the L2501. There have been a couple of threads on here recently with prices. If you can get by with the capacity it might bear looking at.

 

[nybirdman]

For sure scrap the 8N/9N idea;used them in the past myself and you don't want one.Some one mentioned the L2501 Kubota(HST preferred) and they are about the same physical size as the 8N.
It should all you want with ease and have a warranty.

 

[jeff9366]

​

For sure scrap the 8N/9N idea.

Someone mentioned the L2501 Kubota (HST preferred) and they are about the same physical size as the 8N. It should do all you want and have a warranty.

POSTED BY FOXTAIL - 10/08/2016

A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501
​

I want to tell my experience with a kubota L2501 in case it's useful to anyone considering this tractor, or a L3301. They are wonderful tractors but the buyer should be aware of the following if you're not planning to get a hydrostatic....

First some background: I cut 10 acres of rough land 1-2 times per year. I did this successfully with a John Deere 1023E tractor and 4 foot Frontier RC2048 cutter. The 1023E's ground clearance around the transmission was fairly low, however, and the ride was a bit rough. So I wanted to upgrade this summer. I wanted a Deere 3032E with 5 foot cutter but it ended up being more than I wanted to pay, especially since I am unlikely to ever put that many hours on the tractor. The new Deere 3025E seemed better for my budget, but is not out as of this writing, and in any case my John Deere dealer said it has only 17.4 PTO horsepower and thought that is too little for a 5 foot cutter.

So I talked to Kubota dealers, and they were quite supportive of putting a 5 foot cutter behind a L2501, which has better PTO horsepower than the Deere (and up to 70.2 lb-ft of torque, incidentally, compared to 51.3 for the 3025E and 64.2 for the 3032E; although torque is not probably as important as PTO HP).

I ended up with a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 with 5 foot Land Pride RCR1260 cutter. The gear drive saved maybe $1000 and offered more PTO horsepower (20.5 PTO HP vs 19.0 for the L2501HST). HOWEVER, the gear drive was a big MISTAKE for my situation:

Problem 1: Nonlive PTO. When mowing if you ever need to change a gear or reverse, you must fully depress the clutch pedal, which also shuts off the transmission-driven PTO (and rear cutter). If you are in heavy material and want to slow down or back up, your only choice is to raise the mower and keep going (but not getting the grass cut) or to put the clutch in, bringing the tractor and PTO to a complete stop. (Note that the gear drive L3301 also has nonlive transmission-driven PTO. The L3901 gear drive might have the advantage of a two stage clutch pedal, which can let the PTO keep going as you change gears. However, buyers should check this carefully).

Problem 2: There are only 8 forward gears on the L2501 and they are spaced somewhat widely for mowing. It's hard to find the specs, which are only in the Kubota owner's manual and not online. Here are the details:
Low2 is 1.1 mph (much too slow for mowing except for very heavy conditions)
Low3 is 1.6 mph (very slow for mowing -- much slower than I generally did in my 1023e with a much smaller engine -- but this is the most realistic option for most conditions)
Low4 is 2.8 mph (substantially faster than L3, and generally too fast for mowing for all but the lightest material -- but still may not get a good cut because you're going so fast)
Also: on the L2501 (unlike L3301 as I understand it) there is no shuttle shift, which means that if you want to go from forward to reverse, you have to fully depress the clutch, come to a complete stop, which shuts down the PTO as well, and slowly shift and let your clutch out again. To save the clutch, the PTO and the implement, you really should do all this at fairly low RPM. However, since this action is also how you get the tractor to start moving again, you need some power -- maybe 2000 RPM to get the whole thing to go. Your left leg will really get some strength training!

Anyway, a gear drive L2501, with its transmission-driven PTO and somewhat widely spaced gears, is a little bit like a 1950s type tractor, and is not for everyone! I am sure there is someone out there who loves it, and will promptly tell me I'm just inexperienced. If someone has had a good experience with this tractor, please share.

After nearly 5 hours of frustration, my dealer let me trade up to a L2501HST, which essentially solves the problem. I would not hesitate to recommend the L2501HST to anyone wanting to run 5 foot implements.

POSTED BY FOXTAIL - 10/08/2016​

 

[fried1765]

Not sure how you guys do the quote and answer thing with different colors but, Thank you. I'll do my best to answer.
I am retired/disabled vet, with a toy money job as a construction super. My wife works also, and my only kid just finished college. We intended initially to go bigger with say an L6060. We have narrowed down HST as the plan. The garden is for farmers market, with intent of it becoming my only job vs this construction baby sitter.
Wife didn't understand the cost of implements and the tractor so now she wants a smaller tractor and figures I can just take longer to mow... *side note, I sold her on this house saying there's just 2 of us now so smaller kitchen is ok...

I understand the heavy isn't the goal it's the lower cg, I used the wrong terms, my bad. I do know that I need the weight though for ground engagement. Ive been killing coffee time with EverythingAttachment videos and watched some tiny kubotas doing some pretty impressive garden work. Which makes me think I can get by with a quite a bit smaller rig. I don't mind more mow time, I might just mow 3-4 times a year vs 1-2.

Bottom line, the smarter half says keep it under 20k. I am thinking used implements from CL/Bay and maybe 15 on the tractor. I want to try it though with say an old 8N. I will likely buy an old beater and the mower. contract the garden break up of virgin stone soil (the glacier took a major dump on our land), and wait for a loader option.
I am going to stop at Orange on my way thru lebanon today though. DIdn't know LS was near freeburg, I might pop in there too next week.

anyway, long reply. Thanks for your help again, hopefully I didn't miss too much for answers.

The 8N idea is NOT a good one!
I have a nice 1951 8N with Sherman transmission.
What do I use it for?
Nothing!
Did not even start it last year!
I should sell it, but it is not worth much, and it is a cute bit of (parade?) antiquity.
If my youngest son should keep mine until he is 78, he will be able to say that he has a 100 year old tractor.
An 8N is not what you want, or need!

 

[bspeedy]

I'm also firmly in the 'don't waste your time and money on an 8N' camp. Those suck. They were popular at the time because the next best selling tractor ate hay and pooped.

If you are trying to go cheap, get a 20 year old Japanese diesel 4wd tractor with a loader. Should be close to 10 grand, give or take. 30 hp sounds about right for what you want to do and your budget. I'd go with a 40hp unit if you can find one.

Ford 1720 or 1920. John Deere 970 or 1070. Kubota L2900, L3600, L4200. Massey 1260. Those are some of the best / heaviest / most reliable.

 

[varmint]

Here're some semi-informed, take them with a grain of salt type opinions: Depending on your soil, post hole augering shouldn't require much in the way of HP or weight- I drilled quite a few with a 9" auger powered by a Kubota B8200, with all of 19 HP and maybe 2800 lbs. Only issues were when I got wedged in a tree root or big stone, and more power would have just sheared more bolts.

Not sure about the R-1 tires... I am thinking R-4s might be a better choice? If you are worried about stability, then filled rear tires would be good.

I too have watched for used implements (a smallish rough mower, 5' or 6' rear blade) and not found much worth bringing home unless you get lucky. Your interest in EA seems like a good start for that. My present L3400 was used mainly for finish mowing for years before I got it, and the seller was very happy with how it worked for that purpose. Rough cutting would either take a bigger, heavier tractor or sticking with a smaller deck- say 5', which would get old fast depending on how many acres you are cutting.

I have had no issues with buying CLEAN used tractors, since most brands will give thousands of hours (well, 2, anyway) of service providing they are simply maintained. I had a L3130 that came with 1200 hours, and for all practical purposes, it could have had 120 hours- no problems or diminished performance was detected while I had it. After I had cleaned up, epoxy primered and painted the loader bucket, the tractor could pass for a garage queen. I personally love the Grand L Kubotas, but to each their own.

Having a SSQA loader opens many doors to useful attachments, like grapples and forks, and at least one rear remote or third function is good for a lot of things.

 

[bspeedy]

Here are a few in the MO area. I am clueless on Missouri geography so these may not be anywhere close to you:

Massey 1433 v - farm & garden - by owner - sale

Tractor - farm & garden - by owner - sale

Massey 1533 - farm & garden - by owner - sale


New Holland TC34DA - farm & garden - by owner - sale

26 New Holland TC3 MFWD Hydrostat Tractor with Loader - farm & garden - by dealer - sale

https://columbiamo.craigslist.org/grd/d/ford-tractor-4wd/6414478449.html


https://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/d/case-dx29-small-farm-tractor/6398176564.html

Of these, I like the Massey 1533. Great tractor, heavy frame, probably SSQA. Might not be HST, but it's worlds better than an N Model Ford.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Not sure how you guys do the quote and answer thing with different colors but, Thank you. I'll do my best to answer.
I am retired/disabled vet, with a toy money job as a construction super. My wife works also, and my only kid just finished college. We intended initially to go bigger with say an L6060. We have narrowed down HST as the plan. The garden is for farmers market, with intent of it becoming my only job vs this construction baby sitter.
Wife didn't understand the cost of implements and the tractor so now she wants a smaller tractor and figures I can just take longer to mow... *side note, I sold her on this house saying there's just 2 of us now so smaller kitchen is ok...

I understand the heavy isn't the goal it's the lower cg, I used the wrong terms, my bad. I do know that I need the weight though for ground engagement. Ive been killing coffee time with EverythingAttachment videos and watched some tiny kubotas doing some pretty impressive garden work. Which makes me think I can get by with a quite a bit smaller rig. I don't mind more mow time, I might just mow 3-4 times a year vs 1-2.

Bottom line, the smarter half says keep it under 20k. I am thinking used implements from CL/Bay and maybe 15 on the tractor. I want to try it though with say an old 8N. I will likely buy an old beater and the mower. contract the garden break up of virgin stone soil (the glacier took a major dump on our land), and wait for a loader option.
I am going to stop at Orange on my way thru lebanon today though. DIdn't know LS was near freeburg, I might pop in there too next week.

anyway, long reply. Thanks for your help again, hopefully I didn't miss too much for answers.

I think youre right to favor the HST. The only thing in your requirement that would favor gear is the garden plow/disc work. A 40HP HST will do fine there, but it will slow you down a little compared to what a gear tractor would do. - Thats not so big a deal with only 2-3 acres. -- EVERYwhere else the HST will win out by its superior ability to instantly choose speed from 0 up.

I say ~40HP or a little more. AG tires for their superior traction and width adjustability.​

I think 4WD has been considered a must, altho I didnt see it mentioned.

 

[RSKY]

As somebody else said on here, "the amount of work a tractor can do is determined by it's weight, how fast is does that work is determined by it's horsepower".

If you are going to put out a three acre garden to sell out of then you will be using your tractor every single day next summer in that garden. Get one sized for your garden work and a cheap rotary mower for the fields. Don't think you have to have an expensive heavy duty mower either. Those are for commercial use on the side of a road in every day use. A light duty mower will work fine for you as long as it has the stump jumper. I have a Howse 5-foot light duty mower that now sells for $895 at Kough Equipment in Farmington, Kentucky. Six foot is about a hundred more. Anything I have managed to push over with my 2500+ pound tractor it will chop up. I have hit half buried cross ties, rocks, stump, etc.. My little Kioti doesn't have enough horsepower to even break the shear bolt but it and the mower keep on going. If all you are mowing is 15 acres twice a year that is all you need. WHY spend the extra money.

I raised a small garden for years. When I retired I put out maybe a quarter acre at my mother's farm (I live on a one acre lot). I did this for four or five years until my wife quit her part time summer University job. It was three days a week four to six hours a day. The year I had the largest garden we took off on a two week vacation and I never got the grass back under control. BUT, I had enough to furnish my and my two daughter's households all the corn, green beans, okra, tomatoes, and cucumbers they could stand. This included canning and freezing. Just make sure you plant stuff so it doesn't all come in at once. If you do you may end up living by yourself after your wife leaves after the third twelve/sixteen hour day in a row picking and breaking green beans. After the first year I learned to plant five different varieties of corn that took from 59 to 110 days to mature. Makes life a lot easier and you will have market corn for months. But that first year....with it all coming in at once.....it was a nightmare.

If you do decide on the large garden I highly suggest you watch this guy, webcajun, on his youtube channel. His motto is, "I'm old, I'm crippled, and I'm lazy and this is how I do it". He has wide spaces between rows, picks sitting in a golf cart, and uses the correct equipment.

And this is the bible of Kentucky garden growers. It shouldn't be that much difference from where you are located. http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/id/id128/id128.pdf All the information you need for yields, planting times, planting amounts, etc. is there. Well for Kentucky anyway.

Some ideas in no particular order.

If you buy the tractor new get a front end loader. It will be MUCH cheaper if purchased with the tractor. A FEL makes a tractor into a versatile do it all helper. My little Kioti is used much, much more than the twice as large Ford because it has the loader.

A smaller tractor is much easier to use in a garden or other cultivating jobs. There is a reason IH sold all those Cub Farmalls for tobacco and garden cultivation in the fifties and sixties. A larger tractor will be faster, etc., but you will screw up some rows using it. Been there, done that!!

Get the HST if you are going to be using the tractor in a garden or mowing around obstacles.

Get the HST if you are going to do ground engaging jobs like moving dirt or gravel. Once you start changing directions every few seconds the HST will make life much easier.

Get the HST if your wife is going to use it.

Your wife will love the HST especially on a smaller tractor. Some weeks my wife starts and stops mine many more times than I do. She moves flower pots, potting soil, bird baths, flowers she has dug up, trash bags, and anything else she can get into the bucket. Eight year old granddaughter putted around the yard all summer with the bucket full of water watering the flowers. Had to put a few back in the ground after 55-gallons dumped on them but it taught her how to handle the machinery and kept her out of trouble otherwise.

Get four wheel drive. You will never regret it.

Forget the old Ford. I have spent hours on one as a teenager and younger. They are designed for row cropping. Which means they are designed for pulling ground engaging implements in a straight line across a large field. Use them for anything else and they are lacking.

After much serious thought and several beers I have decided that you need a 25 to 30 horsepower Kioti (my favorite), Kubota, Deere, or whatever. It must have a front end loader, tiller, one row cultivator, sub soiler, hiller, blade, and a five foot (25-hp) or six foot (30-hp) rotary mower. It MUST have a three range hydrostatic transmission. First for ground engaging, second for mowing, third for transport.

Also a 16'-18' trailer to move it about with.

And a pickup truck to pull trailer and haul all that produce to market.

And a shed to store it in.

MAN, I am having fun spending your money.

Before you buy I suggest you visit Metropolis Illinois and Little Tractor. They sell Kioti. A few years ago they had to stop putting prices on the Net because all the other dealers were complaining that people would shop a tractor locally then buy it online from Little and have it shipped cheaper than the local dealer.

Clear as mud isn't it.

Hope you have a wonderful day.

RSKY

P.S. I am on a 'weight limit' due to minor surgery. So I can't do anything except fold laundry, cook, and be a know-it-all on TBN. Thanks for giving me a problem to worry about for the day.