Help! Deere, Kubota, New Holland, or Mahindra??

[FLDave]

Hello all,

I am a first time poster and a long time lurker. I've learned quite a bit in a short amount of time from these discussions but now it's my turn in the fire. I need advice badly.

We have 15 flat acres in West Central Florida. Dry in the winter, hot and wet in the summer. Here's what I would need from a tractor:

1.) Brush Hog 13 acres approximately 8 times a year. Twice in Florida's dry winter and about 6 times in our rainy season (June-Sept.). I may get a few cattle to help however there are some wetland plants (bull rush) in a few ditches and a big patch on an acre of the property that I want to be able to take down occasionally. I would like to be able to drag a 6' wide brush hog without bogging down.

2.) Driveway maintenance for 800' of crushed coral driveway. This may be lenghtened to 1600'. The property measures 400' x 1635'.

3.) I will have about two acres of actual yard that I will have to finish mow. I can probably buy a cheapie rider mower for this if I have to.

4.) I have (3) 1,000 cu. yd. turtle ponds (I'm a reptile wholesaler) and may want to add two (2) more. I can possibly dig them with a loader if I start on the beach end(shallow slope) and work my way down. This will not be an everyday event and I don't mind if it takes a while to dig.

5.) I may dedicate 1 acre to Palm Tree production. 800 trees on 8 ft. offset centers. We will grow them to 8-10 ft. in 5 years then harvest. We must maintain areas between trees and move them when they are ready to sell.

6.) My daughters want a horse and a small barn and all of the work that goes with that.

7.) I have a 8 foot wide creek that crosses the property and will have to clean it occasionally. Our driveway crosses it via a culvert we had installed.

8.) General ground improvement by adding fill and creating drainage areas for probably the rest of my life.

Phew, I have a lot of work to do, but I don't have to do it all immediately.

I want the best bang for my buck but I do not want a unreliable unit. I was looking at the Deere 990 and 2105 but Deere as a company is the most costly. What about the Kubota (L4300, MX5000, 3130, etc), New Holland (TC35 or TC40), or Mahindra (4500 or 5500)?.

I was trying to get a unit with a loader for around $20,000.

Are there other models to consider.

Am I in the right ballpark on H.P. (35 h.p P.T.O.)?

Are ther other models that may be better for my needs?

I need help from those of you who know and have the experience. Any responses are greatly appreciated. I am not set on a brand yet.

Oh yes, I will need to add about 400 fence posts also.

I will drive as far as TX or TN to get a good deal.

Thanks a lot,

 

[DavesTractor]

Hi Florida Dave,

It sounds like you have a fabulous place!

There are so many great tractors available right now. I'm in Northern California and do not have experience with crushed coral or palm trees, nor turtle ponds. I do have a daughter begging for a horse. She will win real soon, but don't tell her... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

If you are looking at Mahindra, you might check out the 4110. When you step up to the 00 series (such as the 4500, 5500, etc) you are making a huge jump in size. They are no longer compact tractors by any definition, and they might be a little large around your palms. I'd certainly go with 4wd. If you decide to go with a backhoe, the Mahindra (Bradco) 509 is a premium unit and it does well on the 4110. You should be under $20K (less backhoe). Also consider the Branson and Century tractors. They are built in South Korea and are well made heavy duty units and they generally have a price advantage over some of the other brands.

The dealer is very important. Buy local if you can , long distance only if your local options are not competitive.

 

[OkeeDon]

Let's see if we can sum it up:

- 6' brush hog.
- driveway maintenance -- box blade, probably 6' also.
- finish mowing -- big tractor is too big, may tear up the yard.
- pond digging. More about this below.
- move and grade some fill -- the FEL and box blade will do fine.
- cleaning a creek -- I'd have to see it. But, if a culvert is enough to cross it, it will probably be shallow enough to keep it cleaned out by back dragging the FEL bucket; a tooth bar would help.
- construction and maintenance for a horse barn. Pole barn? You'll want a post hole digger for the 3 point hitch. Otherwise the tractor will be a big help in construction, but will probably be too big to muck out stalls. If your daughter wants the horse bad enough, she can do it by hand. Good for her character. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
- fence posts -- post hole digger.
- maintain between palm trees. Use brush hog, maybe a landscape rake.
- move trees when sold -- your loader will be able to move them, but you'll need a good way to get them out of the ground. The Tree Toad is probably the least expensive because you hammer the shovels into the ground, 3 point hitch models $2100 to $2500. Hydraulic tree spades will be at least 4 times as much.

Back to pond digging. How deep? The water table at my Okeechobee location varies from about 2' in the summer to 6' in the winter. You won't get down very far with your tractor until the water will start seeping in and you'lle get stuck Also, FEL's are not real good at taking more than several inches at a time below the plane of the ground. You could do it with a backhoe to maybe 6' or so, but that's way beyond your budget. My contractor will bring in a huge trackhoe, dump truck, dozer and articulated loader, dig your pond, move the spoil to where you need it, level it and compact it, for about $3/cubic yard. Cheaper than buying fill. Check your local contractors, or PM me if you want my guy's contact info.

So, you need a tractor, FEL, 6' brush hog, 6' box blade, post hole digger and maybe a landscape rake, to start. A 35 HP tractor should be more than enough. I recommend New Holland, but you can take that with a grain of salt, because I'm prejudiced. I don't know enough about the prices of the bigger tractors to know if you can do all that for $20K or not; I suspect not, in the case of the big 3 brand names. You can worry about removing the trees once they're grown...

I'm doing most of the same things, but on a smaller scale on 5 acres, with 4' brush hog and 4' box blade, 6' landscape rake, don't have a PHD yet. I'm doing it all with a TC18 with 12LA loader. I have to take smaller "bites"; but it's taken everything I've thrown at it, so far -- around 350 hours in the last year.

Where are you located? PM me if you don't want to make it public...

 

[Egon]

The joy and agony of choosing a tractor.

From what you have indicated I would have new ponds dug by larger equipent as others have stated.

Next fiqure out the equipment most used and the horsepower required.

Factor in a few other uses and rate the requirements. Think about overall size and how it would relate to clearance for some of the jobs.



You may have to sacrifice in one area to gain in another.

One thing to consider is smaller may take longer but larger just will not fit. Conversly larger may be able to do the job but smaller is physically impossible.

It's a conundrum!

Egon

 

[To20Chris]

Welcome to TBN! My first advice would be to get the cheap lawn mower for the lawn, and then look at the heavier tractors. You'll want weight for the things you list. If you don't have to worry about marking up the lawn when you're mowing, then you are free to look at the heavier machines, as well as the R1 (Ag) tires. If it gets muddy there then the R1's would be better than the R4's that I have - the R4's load up pretty fast in the mud.

Mahindra is a good place to look for "bang-for-the-buck", make sure you are happy with the dealer. Since this was the creiteria I was using, and my tacsk list is similar, I would also recommend the Kioti LK3054XS. It's a 30hp, no frills, shuttle shift workhorse, and should be a reasonable priced.

 

[FLDave]

Thanks for the imput. So am I correct? Is a 35 h.p. enough or am I cutting it a bit close?

I was trying to get <font color="black"> </font> the tractor and FEL for around $20,000. We could never afford...let me reword that...my wife would never agree to let me get a Front End Loader (FEL), Box Blade (BB), 6' Brush Hog, Post Hole Digger (PHD), Back Hoe, etc, all at one time. I'm going to have to let those things "mysteriously appear" one by one over a period of time.

Thanks Don, our place isn't fabulous just yet. It is still mostly raw pasture, a dirt driveway and our house pad (a pile of dirt you build your house on so it won't flood). I'll look into the 4110.

Don & Egon, the guy who dug my turtle ponds said he'd dig 2 more for $1.00 a yard if he could just pile the dirt near where he digs. Otherwise he wants $2.50-$3.00 a yard to move the dirt to another location and grade it. Maybe I could do this to save money and use a FEL to move the dirt around a little at a time to make the property drain better.

Chris, I guess no turf tires? My land can get wet in the summer. I'm sure OkeeDon would verify Florida's Monsoon Season in the summer.

OK, now that I've added more information can someone help me get a little more closer. It really does take me forever to make a decision because I want it to be correct.

I added a pic of our culvert as my wife and I "Hand-Stacked" 20 tons of rip-rap rock on it's banks for erosion control. I'll never do that again. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Thanks,

 

[cowboydoc]

In your picture I see that you have a very nice full-size Dodge pickup. Top of the line truck and it looks to have all the accesories. Did you consider just getting a stripped down 2wd or just getting an off-brand truck when you got it? I doubt it. From the sounds of things you are going to be spending alot of time on this tractor. My suggestion would be to buy something you're going to enjoy driving and is also going to have all the creature comforts, looks good, has good dealer support and adequate parts network.

With this said personally I will pay extra to have a nicer tractor, more ergonomically correct, no hassle same day dealer support, parts, and whatever I need. You won't get that with the off-brand tractors. Yes they are cheap and fill a niche for a cheap tractor. But they do not have alot of the features that a deere, kubota, new holland will have. You won't have the dealer support, network, parts, etc. Yes you may pay a little more but I guarantee you that extra price will soon be forgotten long before buying a cheap tractor will be forgotten. In my opiniion you can't beat Deere for the # of options in tractors, supports, etc.

Be extremely careful about buying an off brand from a dealer that is hundreds of miles from you. This board is full of stories from people buying everything from Deere, kubota, and all the rest down the line that had problems and it was difficult to get those issues resolved as the dealer was so far away.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

If you are letting the attachements "appear" over time, the one thing you want right when the tractor is delivered is the FEL. It is cheaper to buy it with the tractor than to add it later.

Also, if there is any chance your wife will operate the tractor, then get a hydro drive unit. I always recommend those for newbies and for anyone with a hill. Your land is flat so it is less critical, but it sure is a heck of a lot easier to use a hydro drive for FEL work than any other type of transmission. Regardless of whether you wife gets on the machine or not, you will find that you can do more work in less time with a FEL if you have a hydro transmission.

As for the tractor size, OkeeDon makes a good point in that a small machine will do what a big machine will do, it will just take a bit longer. But that said, it sounds like you might be in the right size range. I might step down one frame size from the NH TC35 down to a TC33 for working in between your trees. The TC33 is built on a smaller frame, but gives you most of the power of a TC35. Personally, I like a small frame and a lot of power, so that may bias my opinion away from the TC35. If you feel the TC33 is too small for you, then I would go to the TC40, it is the same frame size as the TC35 but it puts more umph into the unit with the extra 5hp. While I just talked only about NH machines, my opinion would be the same if you went with a JD or Kubota, mid-size frame tractor with more than the minimum engine for that given frame size. Again, my concern is that with your potential tree farm, a slightly smaller frame will give you greater manuverability in between those trees. The mid-size frame tractor would also be better suited to mowing your lawn than a larger & heavier framed tractor. Understand that picking a tractor, unless you have the budget for multiple tractors, is a compramise between a lot of choices. Bigger units will move more stuff faster, but will be slower in other tasks because they don't manuver well. Smaller tractors will take a bit longer to do some jobs, but are faster at anything that requires a lot of turning or tight radius work or getting next to things.

Definately want R4 or R1 tires for working in the sand, for digging, etc. R1 tires will eat up a lawn (don't bring that topic up in front of MY wife /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif she hates when I run an old Oliver farm tractor across the lawn /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) R4 Industrial tires are a good compramise tire tred, they give quite a bit of grip, but are typically gentle enough to use for mowing the lawn unless the ground is soggy. If you have clay in your soil -is there ANY clay in Florida?- then R4 tires can pack up and turn into slicks, but the same would be true with turf tires. For the vast majority of us, R4 tires are the best answer.

 

[To20Chris]

cowboydoc

I agree with your comparison to the truck buying decision, in that the tractor will probably be around a lot longer, and buying the right machine will probably have a bigger impact than that of the truck. I also agree that getting a tractor from a dealer you trust, and who is not too far away to support you, is very improtant. It is unfortunate that you feel the need to throw the "cheap" label out. What do you consider off-brand?

Since the only non-big3 brands mentioned so far are Mahindra and Kioti, then I will assume those are the off-brands of which you speak - I have not looked at the Mahindras, so I don't know about them. In the case of Kioti, I can tell you that of the two models I looked at, both were larger, built of equal or better materials (thicker steel on sheet metal), had more features (true position control, nicer seat, live PTO, shuttle shift, etc.) than were on the "name brand" units I could have gotten at a similar price. Parts are readily available and reasonably priced. The dealer network is not as well developed, but it is improving rapidly, so if there is a good dealer nearby then there is no disadvantage.

I often find that I agree with your posts, and you are obviously quite knowledgeable in many areas, it is unfortunate that you feel the need to trash other brands. My advice was based on just having gone through a very similar investigation, for uses that sound very similar to what this poster intends to do. There are several other units which would fill the bill quite nicely for him, thus I suggested he look at. Maybe he won't like it, maybe the local Kioti dealer is no good, all of which would be good reasons not to buy it. Since you don't think he should even look at it, I'll offer you a challenge: Which of the tractors I could have gotten from the "name brands", with FEL and BH, for under $20K would have been superior to the LK3054, and why? I'll give you the ergonomics to start with, as I know it is lacking there.

 

[To20Chris]

If you can spend the 20K on just the tractor and loader, then go for something bigger than the LK3054. I don't think most of what you want to do is going to call for a lot of power, with the exception of the 6' brush hog. Depending on what you are cutting, how thick it is, and how fast you want to go, it may take a bit of hp. My brush hog is only 5', so someone with experience with a 6' could give you hp advice there. I'd stick with the R1's unless you have areas that you can't risk marking up. Bigger isn't always better with tractors, but in your case I think it is. My general advice is to buy the most capability, not the name or the color - of course keeping an eye on quality, service, and support.