Antonio Carraro tractors - Ins/Outs... who has one and would you get it again?

[Dadnatron]

I am currently in the preliminary stages of looking for a second, more versatile, tractor. My current is a JD 5100e that does my big grunt work and has an FEL for loading etc. I bulk out my pastures with a 15' Woods Batwing. But, I am currently putting in fence, and know that I will be needing something for mowing as well as other, smaller/more intricate work. I am looking at something more versatile than a simple ZTR since a lot of my mowing will be along uneven tree lined old fence lines. (My new fence is well within my property line, but the original line has many large trees some of which are along a small bank. A ZTR would probably be able to do about 80% of what I need, but I'd still need to figure out how to do the rest.)

I was looking at a Power Trac, mainly for the 'other uses' to which it can be applied. As I was looking, I found an Italian line of tractors mainly geared towards vineyard and orchard production, which is very intriguing. Antonio Carraro, Ferrari, et al, make a very similar appearing tractor which articulates in the center but also, what intrigues me, is the reversible driving direction.

I am thinking that a Center articulating, reversible direction, higher HP tractor would allow me many more options around my farm. I could run a flail in reverse drive, getting close to trees without a lot of backing up and direction issues with a pull type mower. It would also allow me to handle banks/slopes better than a ZTR. And turning the direction around, would allow me to pull other implements in a typical 3ph/drawbar fashion.

I've searched, and about 10 years ago, there were a few scatterings of posts, but little since. I was hoping there was a bit more experience out there, and recommendations on what to look at/avoid.

My thinking would be HST/Center articulating steering/higher HP (50+ which likely kicks out my initial thought of a TTR 4400). But I'd like to hear your thoughts about the ins and outs of my intended use and whether you would recommend them. There are a few dealers who carry them. One in my state of KY. I've yet to contact them for information, as I am in the 'lets see what the folks of TBN have to say' stage.

Antonio Carraro

Ferrari

 

[woodlandfarms]

I own the PT 1850, but drooled over the AC for a long time before deciding. It came down to 3 things, cost (AC's are crazy expensive). Loader, and parts. When I was looking there wasn't much of a loader, huge deal breaker. Not sure if that has improved over the years. And then parts and service. It was a long ways for us to get any and the machine is very modern and complex.

I think it is a better machine than the PT, but I am not sure the +50K price is worth it and it wasn't for me.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I would only buy an ex municipal unit and only an articulating one.

Cons, in my opinion.

Only one dealer/distributor (for us) and they are a very, very expensive outfit, geared for gov sales.

I don't like Italian stuff. Maybe it's only the language barrier. I once heard that all the Italian Parts business is controlled by organized crime. Who knows if that is true?

You buy German and many other countries and quite possibly the person answering the phone may speak better English than you. French and Italian, forgetaboutit!

 

[jeff9366]

It is 250 miles from Versailles, KY to Tazewell, Virgina, home of Power Trac. Two days for UPS or FedEx.

It is 4,000 miles and a foreign language from Versailles, KY to Italy.

I would favor the Power Trac.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I have three Italian tractors... I've not had to wait more than 2 or three days for any part, although I've NOT needed many parts either...

Most parts are already in the US, so no big deal...

SR

 

[Agvg]

The language problem is rapid going away, it literally dying. Younger people in France and Italy speaks English.

 

[woolyAcres]

. But I'd like to hear your thoughts about the ins and outs of my intended use and whether you would recommend them. There are a few dealers who carry them. One in my state of KY. I've yet to contact them for information, as I am in the 'lets see what the folks of TBN have to say' stage.

@Dadnatron-

I managed to find a used TTR 4400 HST. I've had it about a month. Bought it with 850 hours, model year 2008 I believe. It is reversible, but does not have articulated steering. It does have an rotational joint in the middle so the front and rear axles and rotate relative to each other.

I think it's a great machine! Mine came with a 5' flail (and hydraulic v-plow) which I've been using to keep pastures clean after the cows move on to another pasture. It gets right up to the fences and working in the woods or in tight quarters is a breeze. I think part of that is the HST- forward to reverse is so easy and the business end is right in front of you for easy/clear vision. I'd love to put a 6' flail on it and I think it would handle that but I don't know that it would deal well with 7' or higher. If you want to go that wide, the larger machines would be required I think. I've also got access to a New Holland TC45 which has a similar sized motor and PTO hp. They are pretty different machines in actual use. The AC handles hills and tight spaces so much better, the larger wheeled NH rides better over bumpy ground, they both run a 5' brush hog evenly well, but it's just easier and faster to do it on the AC. With a good quality flail/sharp knives, you might get away with it as a mower around the house.

I don't think the AC does enough to be a sole tractor for most folks, especially where a FEL is needed. But if you've got access to other tractors such that an FEL isn't a need, I think it's a fantastic addition and can make a lot of tasks easier, faster, and safer (when working on any kind of slope).

At the moment, I believe only Antonio Carraro is currently selling new units. The Ferrari site you linked to is the italian version but I don't think those can actually be purchased here (for EPA regulations). I think they are trying to get here but last I spoke to them it hasn't happened: http://ferraritractor.com

 

[Dadnatron]

I have a larger tractor for FEL work.

I'm looking to add more of a utility type machine and the AC looks like it could be a good fit.

How did you go about finding a used machine? I know they are more likely in vineyard/orchard type locations, and we don't have many around my area. But if you have any pointers, I'd really like to hear them.

 

[Groo]

Canada has done it too
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[woolyAcres]

How did you go about finding a used machine?

Dumb/good luck. I was actually considering a new one but that was just too much money. I was calling all over the country trying to get information- Washington state, California, Kentucky, Michigan, Iowa. The importer for North America is here in Pennsylvania (about 6 hours away). During my search for information, I got hold of a current owner to get his opinion. He owned 2 units: the 4400 and a 7600. A week or so after we talked he called me back to say he would consider selling the smaller unit.

It was delivered to me right from the dealer after the 800 hours service. I think I could have gotten an equivalent HP, standard configuration (4WD, loader, ROPS) tractor in this condition for about the same money, probably less. The way I looked at it I was pretty much trading the FEL for a reversible seat. I had an old Yanmar 240D that I was able to sell to take some of the sting out of the purchase. I don't regret it one bit. I've gotten more clean-up on my hillsides done in the month that I've owned it than all the time I owned the old yanmar. It handles and maneuvers beautifully. It's also my first HST which goes really well with the maneuverability.

I had been looking for a used Ventrac or the like but I'm so glad that never worked out. This is a true tractor and all the normal 3PT attachments work. I've used my AC with my box blade, landscape rake, hydrauilc dump trailer, 5' rototiller, 5' flail mower, 5' brush hog, 8" wood chipper, 11' hay rake, hay tedder, pull hay wagons with it. I even use it to run my (hydraulic) round bale wrapper. The 2 main things I have not (and won't) use it for are making 4x4 round bales and lifting those bales. For nearly every other job it's been up to the task.

I really think they are great and do many things well. I get why they are not more popular- $$ and no FEL. But I'd love to see them become more popular.