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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    2
    Location
    Belding, MI

    Default Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    I am looking for a subCUT. I live in Michigan. I own 5 acres, 2 of which I maintain as lawn. I also have 600 ft of asphalt drive to keep clear in the winter. The property is very hilly. I intend to use the unit primarily for mowing but also snow removal, landscaping and light hauling.

    I am looking for a maneuverable tractor with a low center of gravity, 4WD, MMM, FEL and a front blade or snow thrower. I haven't yet looked enough to set a budget. I currently have a JD LT that I have been very happy with but it is undersized.

    I have looked at the following units online:
    kubota BX1500/1800
    John Deere 2210
    John Deere X575
    New Holland TZ18

    Any experience, advice or recommendations would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    RSD

  2. #2
    Elite Member thcri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,645
    Location
    Minnesota SE
    Tractor
    New Holland TC29D, 2001

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    RSD,

    Welcome to TBN. Just for kicks I recomend that you look at one of the smaller CUT's. This will give you an idea of CUT versus SubCUT as far as pricing. You may find that the smaller CUT's are about the same price and you get so much more tractor. The sub may be the one but you have to look at both.

    My reasoning for this is the long driveway, and the 2 acres of mowing and the FEL usage. Now you sub owners don't kick me as the sub will take care of the above just a bit longer that is all. But I have found in some places the sub is almost as expensive is a CUT. The other thing if you do decide to stay in the sub catagory I would still go larger on the HP. In fact many have said decide on the catagory and then go as large as HP as you can in that catagory.

    The other thing you will find most people here will tell you the 3 brands you picked out are all great units, but go with the one that you feel has the best dealer support for after the sale. In other words get to know your dealers really well and if possible test drive all machines. You will get a feel for the one you like and fit the best.

    Good luck

    murph

  3. #3
    Veteran Member bandit67's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,543
    Location
    Foothills, Colorado
    Tractor
    B3000 HSDCC

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    I agree with thcri as far as SubCUT hp.

    Maybe you should look at the:
    BX 2230 (22hp)
    NH TZ24DA and/or Case IH DX24E (24hp)
    Massey Fergusson GC 2300 (22.5hp)

    Those machines are in the same class as the JD 2210.
    Only the Case/New Holland and the Massey Machines have a true Cat 1 3ph, which may be a factor in your decision.

    You should see a $3000-$4000 difference in price between the Sub CUTs and the CUTs, and also a significant difference in attachment prices. I doubt you will, but if you do find that in your area the prices seem to be much closer than that, then definitely look into the larger CUTs.

    Most importantly, though, will be dealer support after the sale, so don't settle on a color until you settle on a dealer.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member JDFANATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,346
    Location
    Central Connecticut
    Tractor
    JD 2210

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    I have owned two GT's, a CUT, and now a sub-CUT, and believe for my property, about an acre and a half of finished lawn plus a few acres of trails and woods, the sub-CUT is the best choice. My driveway is even longer than RSD's and has some fairly steep sections, even still it only takes me 20 to forty minutes (depending on the conditions) to blow all 10,500 s.f. During our last snowfall, we received about 12" and it took 40 minutes only because the wind was howling so much I had trouble seeing! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    In all fairness, the 2210 does give up some things. The limited cat-1 3PH might have some trouble with say a post hole digger, although I understand some members are using them with shorter auger lengths. At 5.5 gpm pump doesn't make for super quick loader response, but in all truthfullness, I wasn't that impressed with a 4115 I tried out either. The tires might be a bit small for some needs, but their advantage is that they give the tractor a lower center of gravity. And the lack of a folding ROPS option is a pain at times, although you can't forget to put it up! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    I'd recommend you think seriously about what you will be primarilly using the tractor for, consider future uses as well, look at and test drive different colors and get to know the dealers. Then when you're close to a decision, try to test out the machine on your property.

    Good luck, it's lots of fun to try out tractors! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  5. #5
    Elite Member RalphVa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,791
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA, USA
    Tractor
    JD 1025, previously Gravely 5650 & JD 4010

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    For what you want, the BX1500 should do fine. An 8 to 12 hp Gravely would do all you want, but doesn't have FEL. They are not made any more anyway. A BCS does what a Gravely did but doesn't have FEL either.

    It's really too bad that JD doesn't offer a sub CUT of 15-18 hp. The 2210 is grossly overpowered but is the best buy for hp. My feeling it is hp that most people just don't need.

    I started off thinking that a BX1500 is it. However, I also want it to do some garden work. The smallest CUT with full Cat 1 capability is the JD 4010. I drove a 2210, 4010 and BX1830 and B7510. Liked the JD 4010 the best. Bonus was it was $300 less than the 2210 (20% discount on the web site prices).

    I'd say to check out the BX1530, BX1830 and JD 2210 and 4010. Drive them with FELs on them. Have the dealer show you how the MMMs work and go on and off. The 2210 is a better MMM machine but it is missing cruise control, dual brakes and a heavier duty and higher lift 3 pt that the 4010 has.

    Ralph

  6. #6
    Platinum Member Killer_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    578
    Location
    Kalamazoo Michigan
    Tractor
    John Deere 3320

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    Hi RSD.

    We have a lot in common. I also live on 5 acres in Michigan. I also have about 600' of paved driveway to clear (300 of my own, and 300 of my neighbor's) I previously owned a BX2200 and now have a B7610. See Traded BX in for B7610.

    In my own experience, the BX will do it all without breaking a sweat. It comes down to personal preference. I like the slightly larger tractor better for some odd reason.

    Have fun shopping.

    BTW: Where do you live?

    KB

  7. #7
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    462
    Location
    western NY
    Tractor
    MF GC2300

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'd recommend you think seriously about what you will be primarilly using the tractor for, consider future uses as well, look at and test drive different colors and get to know the dealers. Then when you're close to a decision, try to test out the machine on your property.)</font>

    Good advice, I'd say. And don't forget how you get along with your dealer is probably more important than which of these tractors you go with! Good luck!

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2
    Location
    Belding, MI

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    Thanks to all for the informative and helpful posts.

    It is hard to resist my almost palpaple urge to buy a tractor bigger than what I probably need - I'm certain I can convince myself but my wife, probably not so much. I've told her this will be the last tractor I buy but judging by many of the other posts I've read, thats probably wishful thinking.

    For now I am going to look more closely at the subCUTs, start measuring up the dealers and taking test drives. The LCG is going to be very important to me because of the hilly nature of my lot. I've happily borrowed my neighbors NH TC33 many times and it is very unsettling when it begins to lose stability.

    Thanks again,

    RSD
    Belding, MI

  9. #9

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( The LCG is going to be very important to me because of the hilly nature of my lot. I've happily borrowed my neighbors NH TC33 many times and it is very unsettling when it begins to lose stability. )</font>
    If you want hill stability and a lot of available implements, consider checking out a power trac machine. Many posters have said they're excellent on hills, have good strong loaders, quick attach. They are, however, very proprietary and you'd have to buy everything from them. John

  10. #10
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    7,503

    Default Re: Newbie Looking for SubCUT Buying Advice

    As John said, for hill stability you might be far better off looking at non-traditional machines. I would expand the recommendations to 3 brands. Power Trac, as John suggested. Also Steiner and Ventrac.

    All 3 are very different from traditional tractors, all 3 are somewhat different from each other, but all share one similar design principle. All are center frame articulating and oscillating. I own the smallest of the Ventrac models and use it for mowing and some light duty hauling with a front scoop bucket. The thing acts like it is GLUED to the slopes. I can do "figure 8s" and "u turns" on slopes that I am afraid to take my kubota and New Holland tractors straight down.

    For all around versitility, Power Trac is hard to beat. They are (in my trials) not the best lawn mowing tractors, and they are a little large for their engine size, but they are AMAZINGLY capable and in most ways they are vastly superior to most CUTs. Had I known about them before, it is very likely that I would not own either the Kubota or the New Holland.

    For pure slope holding ability, Steiner and Ventrac set the standards. They have little units like mine, and they have some that are more traditional. They are fairly small, but power houses in their abilities. I don't like the FELs on these units as much as the Power Tracs. Steiner &amp; Ventrac are superior on slopes and are superior as mowing tractors. A guy about a mile away from me used his Ventrac 4200 to dig a small pond (about 40' by 80') on his property.

    Ventrac 3000 next to a NH TC24D

    Ventrac 3000 with mower deck

    Ventrac 3000 with slip bucket

    HOME PAGE for Steiner Tractors

    HOME PAGE for Ventrac Tractors

    HOME PAGE for Power-Trac


    All of these tractors look a little odd. My Ventrac 3000 is probably the oddest looking model they make (well maybe the Steiner 230 might be even stranger) but don't let their looks sway you. They are designed to perform where other tractors simply cannot go. In fact, they provide an unparalled level of confidence to the operator when used properly while other tractors instill a "pucker factor" that leaves the operator heading into the house for an adult beverage to calm the nerves.



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