Need advice for a new Tractor:)
- Thread starter kcook
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Bob_Skurka
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<font color="blue"> I have looked at the Sub compacts and im concerned that they may not be able to handle some of the rear attachments that I might rent or buy. Tiller, Brush Hog, post hole digger, and seeder. </font>
No need to worry about those, all of those are PTO powered implements and the more PTO horsepower you have the better. Most of the little Sub-CUTS (varies by brand) have engine HP that ranges from 22 to 25hp and probably averages around 23hp. The PTO HP rating will typically be about 4 to 5 hp below the engine HP on any of the Sub-CUTs with HST transmission. That actually ends up giving you similar or more PTO HP than the B7510, CK20 or JD 4110.
Now you do have to size your implements properly for ANY tractor you buy. For example, a 4110 and a 4115 from JD are very similar in size, but the 4115 will be able to drive a slightly larger tiller or rotary cutter simple due to the added PTO hp.
A PHD requires very little PTO HP, any of the machines would easily power one, the only thing is with a Sub-CUT they do have lower clearance so you are best off to buy a PHD designed for a Sub-CUT.
A rotary cutter for ANY of these machines is going to be a light duty model, not one of the tractors listed in this thread is designed for heavy duty bush hogging. That said, you will be looking at roughly 48" to 54" light duty cutters. The more PTO HP the better.
A MMM is going to be roughly 60" for any of these machines, regardless of Sub-CUT or CUT. If your grass is thick, then I'd be looking at the 54" mower decks for anything below 23hp, regardless of frame size.
A snow blower seems to require moderate HP from my personal experience, unless you really get into DEEP or WET stuff on a very regular basis. I'd say any machine in this line up would be well suited to 48"/54" and the higher HP units could run 60"/62" blowers.
A seeder, (rotary?) requires very little power, any machine can handle this without any problems.
People differ on recommendations for tillers. I am VERY conservative with recommendations because I have very heavy clay soil. I would say that the more PTO hp you have the better. A tiller, if you run it the way it is designed to run, at full depth on the first pass, is a power hog. I would favor the higher HP machines and limit the size to 48" for everything but the B7610 or the 4115, those could go up to about 54" at the high end if you have soil remotely close to mine. If you have sand, your sizes could go up. But in central Michigan, I suspect you have clay.
Do not underestimate the abilities of these tractors. A sub-CUT will do anything a larger machine will do. And the higher HP sub-CUT models have some serious advantages over the lower HP small frame CUTS when it comes to mowing due to lower overall height and better turning capabilities.
No need to worry about those, all of those are PTO powered implements and the more PTO horsepower you have the better. Most of the little Sub-CUTS (varies by brand) have engine HP that ranges from 22 to 25hp and probably averages around 23hp. The PTO HP rating will typically be about 4 to 5 hp below the engine HP on any of the Sub-CUTs with HST transmission. That actually ends up giving you similar or more PTO HP than the B7510, CK20 or JD 4110.
Now you do have to size your implements properly for ANY tractor you buy. For example, a 4110 and a 4115 from JD are very similar in size, but the 4115 will be able to drive a slightly larger tiller or rotary cutter simple due to the added PTO hp.
A PHD requires very little PTO HP, any of the machines would easily power one, the only thing is with a Sub-CUT they do have lower clearance so you are best off to buy a PHD designed for a Sub-CUT.
A rotary cutter for ANY of these machines is going to be a light duty model, not one of the tractors listed in this thread is designed for heavy duty bush hogging. That said, you will be looking at roughly 48" to 54" light duty cutters. The more PTO HP the better.
A MMM is going to be roughly 60" for any of these machines, regardless of Sub-CUT or CUT. If your grass is thick, then I'd be looking at the 54" mower decks for anything below 23hp, regardless of frame size.
A snow blower seems to require moderate HP from my personal experience, unless you really get into DEEP or WET stuff on a very regular basis. I'd say any machine in this line up would be well suited to 48"/54" and the higher HP units could run 60"/62" blowers.
A seeder, (rotary?) requires very little power, any machine can handle this without any problems.
People differ on recommendations for tillers. I am VERY conservative with recommendations because I have very heavy clay soil. I would say that the more PTO hp you have the better. A tiller, if you run it the way it is designed to run, at full depth on the first pass, is a power hog. I would favor the higher HP machines and limit the size to 48" for everything but the B7610 or the 4115, those could go up to about 54" at the high end if you have soil remotely close to mine. If you have sand, your sizes could go up. But in central Michigan, I suspect you have clay.
Do not underestimate the abilities of these tractors. A sub-CUT will do anything a larger machine will do. And the higher HP sub-CUT models have some serious advantages over the lower HP small frame CUTS when it comes to mowing due to lower overall height and better turning capabilities.
gippolit
Silver Member
I'm glad to hear your taking look the CK20. I think you will really like it.
Regards
Glen
Regards
Glen
rockyridgefarm
Elite Member
In my recent searching, I really liked the looks of the Kubota B2630. You would be able to get it with the loader and a rear mount mower in the price range you suggest. You might have to shop a few dealers to gewt a good price... Kubota offers other choices, most have already been mentioned...
rico304
Gold Member
kcook, just make sure you do price them out. Pricing does vary greatly from region to region.
Gippolit said,
If you want a light weight small frame cut. I would recommend a B7510. It's a bit more then the CK20.
That is not the case where I am from. The B7510 is approx. $700 dollars cheaper than the CK20.(I look at that as a York Rake) haha Just call around and you can find a good dealer, and then a good deal.
GOOD LUCK!
Gippolit said,
If you want a light weight small frame cut. I would recommend a B7510. It's a bit more then the CK20.
That is not the case where I am from. The B7510 is approx. $700 dollars cheaper than the CK20.(I look at that as a York Rake) haha Just call around and you can find a good dealer, and then a good deal.
GOOD LUCK!
AutoUnionTypeC
Silver Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Thank you so far, im looking at Kiot next (later on today) I have looked at the Sub compacts and im concerned that they may not be able to handle some of the rear attachments that I might rent or buy. Tiller, Brush Hog, post hole digger, and seeder.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
KC )</font>
Well I had the same concerns you have; I suppose that's why I ended up with a CK20. The ladder framed sub-cut bunch may have the HP to run a tiller and posthole digger, but I don't think they have the frame. IMHO!! In fact not too long ago Kubota didn't want you to use a posthole digger on a BX series unless it was the BX22 which has/had the benefit of several hundred pounds of extra bracing associated with the backhoe that comes with that unit. I've been out of the Bota market for some time so that may have changed, no doubt someone here on TBN will know. As far as a tiller goes I know the CK20 is the better platform for this attachment.
Having said all this, a sub-cut may still be what best meets your needs. You’re just going to have to pick where you make your compromises. If mowing is at the top of the list then the sub-cut is probably best. It you will do a lot of tilling, loader work, and value traction the CK20 is your best bet.
Best Regards, Jamie
Any thoughts?
Thanks
KC )</font>
Well I had the same concerns you have; I suppose that's why I ended up with a CK20. The ladder framed sub-cut bunch may have the HP to run a tiller and posthole digger, but I don't think they have the frame. IMHO!! In fact not too long ago Kubota didn't want you to use a posthole digger on a BX series unless it was the BX22 which has/had the benefit of several hundred pounds of extra bracing associated with the backhoe that comes with that unit. I've been out of the Bota market for some time so that may have changed, no doubt someone here on TBN will know. As far as a tiller goes I know the CK20 is the better platform for this attachment.
Having said all this, a sub-cut may still be what best meets your needs. You’re just going to have to pick where you make your compromises. If mowing is at the top of the list then the sub-cut is probably best. It you will do a lot of tilling, loader work, and value traction the CK20 is your best bet.
Best Regards, Jamie
gippolit
Silver Member
Bob,
Seems as if the Kioti Ck20 came in much cheaper then both botas. I'm glad kcook took the time to quotes on all tractors.
Regards;
Glen
Seems as if the Kioti Ck20 came in much cheaper then both botas. I'm glad kcook took the time to quotes on all tractors.
Regards;
Glen
Bob_Skurka
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<font color="red">
Bob,
Seems as if the Kioti Ck20 came in much cheaper then both botas. I'm glad kcook took the time to quotes on all tractors.
Regards;
Glen </font>
Glen, not sure why you are responding directly to me or even what I said other than general pricing.
Further, KC did not post any pricing on this thread, so I'm not even sure what you are referring to in terms of which machines are priced higher or lower. And I suppose, since pricing is very regional, no pricing surprises me anymore.
Also, my main point, which seems to have been missed with your reply to me, is that he is looking at the wrong class of tractor for what will ultimately be only 3 acres and he will end up spending more money on larger implements, larger tractors, etc. We mow my 6 acre office/warehouse complex with a Cub Cadet garden tractor that is 12 years old and still is in very nice condition. All through this thread I believe I have suggested he really seriously consider the SUB-CUTS. I understand he might think a small frame CUT is a better choice, I also understand my opinion is nothing more than my opinion. But he seems to indicate pretty light work overall, and he indicates mowing is a priority. I think he can do every job he has listed, and do it very well, if he downsized his tractor choice. Further, regardless of price or brand, he will get his mowing done faster with a tighter turning Sub-CUT than with any CUT of any price or any brand.
Seriously consider that he will mow his lawn roughly 30 to 35 times a year. Then factor in the greater manuverability of the Sub-CUT versus the CUT, then factor in the Sub-CUT will fit places the CUT won't fit, and make the assumption that the Sub-CUT shaves ONLY 20 minutes off his weekly mowing time. 20 minutes times 30 lawn mowings = 600 minutes or 10 hours per year. That is like getting a free day. And he gets that every year, year after year.
- Now factor in the added time he might spend tilling? None.
- Now factor in the added time he might spend snow blowing . . . hmm, with a front blower, he will actually save time versus a small frame with a blade or a small frame with a 3pt blower.
- Now factor in the added time he might spend with a PHD? None.
Again my point is to try to advise him that he has tasks that can be done with smaller equipment that will save him money, and even can save him some time. I didn't see anywhere were I pushed ANY brand over any other brand. I did see where I suggested a type of tractor that is suitable. Not everyone wants multiple tractors, not everyone can afford to make mistakes and later buy a lawn tractor. On what is ultimately 3 acres, he could almost get by with a garden tractor except his task list suggests stepping up. Otherwise I would suggest a Cub Cadet garden tractor.
One problem with me is that I am NOT brand loyal, I will recommend what I believe is the best equipment, sometimes that included a brand recommendation, sometimes not. While you are clearly pushing your brand on him, it may be a good price (but he didn't post any prices here so I don't know that), but a good price on what is potentially the wrong equipment is not a good overall value. JMHO.
Bob,
Seems as if the Kioti Ck20 came in much cheaper then both botas. I'm glad kcook took the time to quotes on all tractors.
Regards;
Glen </font>
Glen, not sure why you are responding directly to me or even what I said other than general pricing.
Further, KC did not post any pricing on this thread, so I'm not even sure what you are referring to in terms of which machines are priced higher or lower. And I suppose, since pricing is very regional, no pricing surprises me anymore.
Also, my main point, which seems to have been missed with your reply to me, is that he is looking at the wrong class of tractor for what will ultimately be only 3 acres and he will end up spending more money on larger implements, larger tractors, etc. We mow my 6 acre office/warehouse complex with a Cub Cadet garden tractor that is 12 years old and still is in very nice condition. All through this thread I believe I have suggested he really seriously consider the SUB-CUTS. I understand he might think a small frame CUT is a better choice, I also understand my opinion is nothing more than my opinion. But he seems to indicate pretty light work overall, and he indicates mowing is a priority. I think he can do every job he has listed, and do it very well, if he downsized his tractor choice. Further, regardless of price or brand, he will get his mowing done faster with a tighter turning Sub-CUT than with any CUT of any price or any brand.
Seriously consider that he will mow his lawn roughly 30 to 35 times a year. Then factor in the greater manuverability of the Sub-CUT versus the CUT, then factor in the Sub-CUT will fit places the CUT won't fit, and make the assumption that the Sub-CUT shaves ONLY 20 minutes off his weekly mowing time. 20 minutes times 30 lawn mowings = 600 minutes or 10 hours per year. That is like getting a free day. And he gets that every year, year after year.
- Now factor in the added time he might spend tilling? None.
- Now factor in the added time he might spend snow blowing . . . hmm, with a front blower, he will actually save time versus a small frame with a blade or a small frame with a 3pt blower.
- Now factor in the added time he might spend with a PHD? None.
Again my point is to try to advise him that he has tasks that can be done with smaller equipment that will save him money, and even can save him some time. I didn't see anywhere were I pushed ANY brand over any other brand. I did see where I suggested a type of tractor that is suitable. Not everyone wants multiple tractors, not everyone can afford to make mistakes and later buy a lawn tractor. On what is ultimately 3 acres, he could almost get by with a garden tractor except his task list suggests stepping up. Otherwise I would suggest a Cub Cadet garden tractor.
One problem with me is that I am NOT brand loyal, I will recommend what I believe is the best equipment, sometimes that included a brand recommendation, sometimes not. While you are clearly pushing your brand on him, it may be a good price (but he didn't post any prices here so I don't know that), but a good price on what is potentially the wrong equipment is not a good overall value. JMHO.
shoppintractors
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Bob writes.... <font color="blue">I think many buy tractors that are larger than they need, and then end up buying a lawn tractor too. </font>
This is my preferred way to go. I'd rather have a larger tractor for the greater lifting capacities and have a dedicated riding mower for the grass mowing.
Don
This is my preferred way to go. I'd rather have a larger tractor for the greater lifting capacities and have a dedicated riding mower for the grass mowing.
Don
gippolit
Silver Member
Yep I second that!