Cat skidsteer BH attachment vs. Mini Excavator

[chips2002]

Hello,

I want to get into the business of digging trenches. I will be mainly digging trenches inside warehouses for electirclal and plumbing contractors.

Currently, I have a Cat 262 skidsteer and want to buy a backhoe attachment. However, I found that the cost of a new backhoe attachment is close to $13,000. So I was thinking if I pay alittle more, I could get a used mini excavator.

Do you guys think it is worth the money to pay more for a mini excavator vs. the backhoe attachment? What are the benefits and disadvantages of the mini excavator vs. the attachment (usage, productivity, transporting, etc.)?

I would appreciate any opinions. Thanks.

 

[kennyd]

Get the Mini-Ex If you want to be productive, and are charging by the foot.
The SSL BH will do the job, but ALOT slower, just think...every 8 to 10 feet you will have to lift the outriggers, climb out of the BH seat, then climb into the SSL seat to move a little, climb out of the SSL seat and back into the BH seat, lower the outriggers.....

As far as transport, I think the Mini-Ex wins here also, it will fit on a much smaller trailer. How long will the SSL be with the BH attached?

The manuverability of the Mini-Ex in a small space is fabulous. Most new ones will rotate inside there own tracks.

My cousin just bought the smallest JD unit, model 17 I think, with a 14" bucket for just over 20K

 

[TractorLegend]

Mini excavators are amazing---the hoist installers used one to dig a 9.5 foot hole inside my auto repair shop twice for in ground auto lifts. The ceiling is only about 12 feet to the joists.
Maybe you want to consider hoist installing too? I know in Seattle there aren't many people that do it -and the good ones are even fewer. It cost 2500 labor each hoist and he subbed out a cement saw guy to cut the slab maybe 4-500.00~ was paid for that

 

[chips2002]

Thanks for your replies.

I understand the mini excavator is more productive due to it manuverability. However, the Cat backhoe attachment can be operated inside the cab due to its in-cab controls. Here are some pics and description of the attachment.

http://www.gsnet.com/inventory/Heavy_Equipment/SkidSteerLoaders/100273238_2004_Caterpillar_236.asp

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/12153

Yet, the in-cab design makes viewing of the digging area more obstructive, other skidsteers have a higher sitting area. Does anyone with any experience with the Cat attachment have any comments?

As for transporting both tractors I would have to buy a bigger trailer. Right now, I have a 15' trailer and both would not fit. I am in the concrete cutting and demolition business, and if a customer wanted to break, remove the concrete, and dig a trench it would be kind of difficult to have both machines at the job site. However, if I had two different jobs that needed one tractor at each job site it would be more flexible.

What are your suggestions and opinions?

 

[jim_wilson]

Have you checked out the JCB 208s MiniMaster? It is small skid steer loader/backhoe which might fulfill all of your requirements. It is taller than a typical skid steer though - not sure what types of buildings you would be going into and what type of height restrictions you might have. The backhoe moves side to side similar to the backhoe for the CAT skid steer. The JCB looks like it has a better seating position to be able to see what you are doing with the hoe too. I did a quick search on Google for 208s MiniMaster and found a page that gives a good list of comparitive specs for skid steers and the 208s looks to compare pretty closely to the CAT 236:
Skid steer comparison chart

 

[jim_wilson]

some good pictures of a used 208s for $14,500 at this web page

 

[PAexcavator]

The excavators tend to be much faster, and with smoother controls (it's an integrated system, not an added on attachment) and usually have much more applicable power in the hoe than the same physical size traditional hoe( you can use the blade out in front of you as a stabilizer instead of having the stabilizers fixed behind the base of the hoe).

If you want, you can spin and load a truck behind you. This comes in handy in tight spaces and if you're trying to minimize damage on a finished yard (bring the truck in along the area that you're going to dig up anyway instead of tearing up an area twice as wde with the truck beside you).

You don't lose any time attaching the hoe, and if you have two machines, you can use the excavator to dig while another operator dumps gravel or backfills the trench in a continous operation that really saves time.

Ask anyone that has an excavator if they'd go back to a hoe attachment. I'd be amazed if anyone would, I don't miss my skidloader and hoe attachment at all.

 

[PAexcavator]

I just looked at the picture of the Cat attachment. Are you supposed to stand up to reach the controls, or lean way forward in the seat? It looks like a rather uncomfortable operating position.

In fact, if you are standing up, with the ROPS right behind your head, guess what's going to happen when you jerk the hoe when breaking concrete or tree roots? I had that happen to me once and wondered what in the world had happened. That's why you'll see a couple layers of pipe foam insulation at the front edge of some ROPS.

 

[jmc]

I had the chance to demo one of those on a cat tracked loader for about 15 minutes. Seemed ok, and the visibility was good enough that I wouldn't trade it for the seat switching of the other style. The dirt we were in has been dug up several times a year so a better test would be in fully compacted soil. I did notice it didn't have the crowding power compared to my small industrial backhoe(Case 480F) but that was no surprise. Controls were very good. Seems like they were $9 or $10K 3 years ago.

On the otherhand, I had to have my geothermal loop extended that required 150 ft trench 3 ft wide, 6 feet deep. I asked about doing the trench myself to save some money on the job and the money they knocked off was very low so I had them do it. They showed up with a Kubota excavator, pulled behind a one ton truck. He did that trench in an 60 to 90 minutes and that Kubota didn't break a sweat. And his trench was a lot prettier than mine would have been too.

Could you use a trencher attachment for most of that work?

John