Lawn Tractor, Compact Tractor, ATV? Help a Newbie!

[NewToTractors]

I'm a first time tractor buyer and I need some help finding the right one. I've tried using the "Product Selection Tools" on many manufacturers websites... John Deere, Kubota, Massey Ferguson, New Holland, Cub Cadet, to name a few. But, not all the sites have online help or even ask the same questions. I've seen suggestions ranging from a heavy duty riding mower to a 25 horsepower compact tractor. So I'm really not certain which machine is the best fit. I had no idea there were so many Makes and Models to choose from!

Here are some the details/criteria that effects our decision:
Use: Home
Price: Up to approx. $15,000

Primary Tasks: Rough Cutting of pasture grass
Secondary Tasks: Lawn Mowing
Seasonal: Snow Removal, Tilling and Moving Material (Firewood, Mulch)

Acreage: 4 Acres (very few trees)
Mowing Time: Prefer Less than 4 hours
Transmission: Automatic

Here is an important question that the online help tools don't ask about... incline.
On the 4+ acres we just bought, I have 12- to 23-degree inclines for mowing 10-12 inches deep of pasture-type grass. I also have some slopes that max around 40-degrees where the growth is 2-3 foot tall weeds and brush. (I've got property pics if it helps)

My Questions are:

- What manufacturers/machines can operate on these steep degrees of incline? None of the sales people will give me a straight answer!

- Will the differential lock feature found on some of the heavy duty riding mowers work alright for these steep conditions, or do I need to get a 4x4 compact tractor like the John Deere 2210?

- Riding Tractor versus Compact? All can do the work, but after adding a Cat.1, 3-Pt hitch and attachments it would end up costing just as much as a Compact Tractor.

- Should I look at a diesel engine to get the torque to handle our 40-degree hills, or will a gasoline engine work just as well?

- Should I consider an ATV instead of a tractor? I hear that they are able to preform many of the same tasks?

Thanks in advance for anyone that can offer help!

Sincerely, "Overwhelmed" /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[beenthere]

Could easily do this with what I have, a used Deere 4300 with FEL, plow, rotary cutter, forks, and rear grader blade when adding a 60" midmount mower or rearmount mower. Used would likely be under your $15,000 limit.
That is just one small part of your question. Wish you luck in your decision.
I mow 8+ acres easily with a Deere X485. I plow the drive (1/4 mile) with a 7' Western plow, rotary cut brush with a 5' cutter, and haul firewood on pallets with the forks on the FEL. Also have a bucket for the 'wheelbarrow' type jobs and digging holes.

 

[TractorLegend]

I have 5 acres of terrained property, about 3 of it is mowable as recreation property. I started with a Kawa. Prairie 650 and a pull behind 8hp Swisher mower deck. In shallower grass on a flat lot it would work fine. Manuvering/ backing up plain sucked.
Then I got an old Allis garden tractor w/ 42 in deck 14hp,
it was real powerful/ torquey and worked well in dry shallower grass (up to 8 +/- inch grass). But then this spring I didn't get to the property as much and the grass got like field grass, deep and is filling in more and more.
Old Allis cut it but it took me 6plus hrs. That was enough of that.
I heard about Kioti tractors and appeared a better monetary value than a Cub which were the two brands closest to my rural lot. I investigated Kioti on these forums and being a career mechanic I knew it was built right and fat in all the right spots.
I first considered the CK20HST then figured I could risk getting too small a rig and regret it and how handy a loader would be and how the CK20 would be kinda light for that.
So I pondered and got the CK30HST with a rear mount 72 in finish mower and front end loader--- It has 4X4 and rear diff lock and I can get everywhere its safe to go. Theres a CK25 also but Im a power junkie---its the same size as the CK30. Glad I got hydrostatic also Good Luck
oh, ps: quoting Mark Wells at Wells Implement in Nebraska "I wouldnt even consider a gas burner"

and I kept the Prairie---it just plain fun and the kids thrash it about.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

As you are brand new to all of this let me toss out my $0.02 worth of free advice.

First, draw a circle of about 20, or maybe 30 miles around your property on a map and locate all the brands of tractor dealers that are inside that range. Typically if you deal with a quality local dealer you can get free pick up and delivery during the warrenty period, so unless you want to include the price of a trailer and a truck, or add the price per mile for pick up/delivery from a distant dealer, then I would stick with the local guys.

Second, visit the dealers and DON'T worry about the tractors, but look over the dealership. Do they have factory trained/certified repairmen on staff? (some brands do not require this) Is the shop busy, but still clean and orderly? Does the parts department look to be well stocked? (some brands do not require dealers to stock parts). Check out the showroom, do they sell all sorts of associated yard or AG equipement that shows they are not a fly-by-night dealer (with lots of new brands of tractors available, there are many new dealers that don't last in the market very long). So go around and check the dealers and eliminate any dealers that don't look to be "quality" dealership.

Then with your now narrowed down list of dealers, consider the tractor brands that are remaining. Realize that ANY brand of tractor will handle 4 acres.

The SUB-COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS (sub-C.U.T.) like the Kubtoa BX series, the Massey GC series, the New Holland TZ series and the JD 2210 will all do the jobs you lay out. And on 4 acres they are well sized for all the jobs you have. All come standard with HYDROSTATIC transmission, which loosely defined is an "automatic" transmission but be sure to come back here to TBN to learn why you can't just stomp all the way down on the pedal and expect it to climb the hills. All of these SUB-COMPACTS have a LOW center of gravity that makes them more stable on your slopes. All of these will have a "MMM" or Mid-Mount Mower deck. All of these will also run a 48" rear cutter/rotary cutter/brush cutter/bush hog cutter for rough mowin of the field. Most of these tractors are 22 to 25hp at the engine and roughly 15 to 19hp at the PTO (power-take-off). The PTO power is the important number to consider, the higher the better because it will be what you use to power the brush mower and lawn mower. The more power you have for the PTO, the less often your tractor will bog down when conditions are heavy or thick.

You could easily go up in size to the SMALL FRAME COMPACT tractors. In this size you will find more brand choices. Often these tractors will have LOWER power than the smaller SUB-CUTs so be careful what you are looking at when you compare these tractors. Typically you will find these tractors with 20 to 26hp at the engine and 14 to 19 PTO hp. Again, the more PTO hp the better.

You also list moving material, I presume you are looking for a FEL or Front End Loader. Don't get hung up on the spec's, the pump sizes, etc. All the common brands work well. Unless you are really going to push your machine and NEED all the power the FEL has, then simply ignore the specs on this. Some brands have more lift capacity than other brands but all of them are going to beat the heck out of a wheel barrow, a shovel and your back!

The small frame compact tractors are going to have a higher center of gravity than the Sub-CUTS, they will tip over easier. I see no real downside to going to a small frame compact other than it is possibly a bit tippier than a Sub-CUT.

While the photo of your slopes looked easy enough to negotiate with a standard SUB-CUT or CUT, if you really want to get a good slope machine, the I would recommend you contact Ventrac, Steiner or Power Trac. All three brands make slope machines. The Power Trac is actually the most versitile machine I can think of on the market today, they are sold factory direct and made in Virginia. If I was starting over today, might very well have purchased a Power Trac instead of all my other equipment. For 4 acres, you could easily do with a PT-422 or upgrade to a PT-425. These are gas operated tractors, they are VERY unconventional, but they are going to mow faster than a traditional tractor, their FELs have lower capacity than a conventional tractor but even with lower capacity they can move large pile of dirt faster than any similar size convetional tractor will move it. They are able to spin circles on slopes that would tip over any conventional tractor. In essence, if you can get past the fact that they are unconventional then you will find they are amazing machines that will do more than a regular tractor. I've had PT-422's on my property and am amazed at what they are capable of and places they can work where I can't get my conventional tractors into.

 

[MikePA]

My 'standard' dealer advice follows...... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

When you're at the dealer;

Check out the service area. Is it clean? Are the mechanics working? Does it look professional? Or are people standing about drinking coffee and talking? Do the mechanics wear uniforms or are they dressed in jeans and T shirts? See any trucks and trailers owned by the dealer indicating they do pick up and delivery? How many of them are there? Big enough to handle your size tractor?

Check out the showroom/sales area. Clean and neat or a pig sty? Some manufacturers have dealer awards for sales and/or service. See any hanging on the wall? Are there empty desks in the sales area? If so, why are people leaving? Do they sell attachments? If so, are they major brand name attachments or no name ones? Some major brands have dealer requirements such as stocking a certain number of models and parts to fix them. If (fill in the blank of a major vendor) is willing to trust these guys, they are probably OK.

Does the place look busy? Not so busy that you're ignored, but busy enough to know that other people trust and like the place.

Walk around the dealers place. Is there used equipment for sale indicating recent trade ins? Is there a good selection of new tractors and attachments? Are some of the new tractors equipped with a FEL so you can see how they look and try them out? Do some of the tractors have attachments on the three point hitch so you can try them out as well? Is there a paved, grass and dirt area for you to test drive the tractor? Will they loan you a tractor to try out on your property?

Check out the Parts Department. Lots of shelves of parts behind the counter? If not, you may be waiting if you need one. Check the shelves on your side of the counter. Are there any? Bolts, nuts, paint, oil, pins, i.e., the odds and ends and consumables a tractor needs.

Does the dealer sell other things, e.g., Ag tractors or other large farming equipment, lawn and garden tractors, chain saws, string trimmers, things that indicate the dealer is a thriving business. This can also be a problem, i.e., the dealer is a jack of all trades and a master of none or that they concentrate on their large farmer customer base to the detriment of their other customers.

Does the dealer have separate departments for each line (Large Ag, Compact, Lawn and Garden) of equipment they sell and service with separate service trucks?

Check out their web site, assuming they have one. Professional looking or are the Copyright dates still 2003? Send them an email via their web site. Get a response?

Call them on the phone. Get a cheerful receptionist or Bubba back in the garage. Or do you descend into a phone system never to emerge? How many times does the phone ring? Do they have toll free numbers?

Do they take credit cards? Do they offer local bank financing?

None of these things are fool proof. Mechanics can wear uniforms and still be incompetent. People can be friendly and still give you a raw deal. Just some things to think about as you visit each dealer. All of these things help you form an overall opinion of the dealer and what kind of support he will provide.

 

[Phoenix1]

I also think you should look at the Simplicity Legacy XL series. Doesn't get much mention on these forums, but think you would be surprised at what it offers. You mention $15000 and you could get the 27 HP diesel 4WD with 3 pt hitch, 60" MMM and FEL for less.

 

[DrRod]

Greetings,

I looked at the 2210 but went up a step to a 4110. I liked the feel of the extra weight and size. It pulls a four-foot rotary through very high/dense weeds without a problem.

As for the rest of the decision, get the right tool for the job. Mid mount mowers are for lawns, brush hogs are for fields, and ATVs and for fun. The ATV websites are full of people who use ATVs for work and they will do a good job of plowing some snow (if you get traction) and pulling out logs (which I do with mine) and towing a cart (which is really handy) but for the most part, they aren't a tractor.

The big thing is that you can't hold them at a steady speed for field work. They aren't geared for that so you're always trying to go faster or slower -- and the thumb throttle is just not made for holding steady over time. Also, I've tried mowing and spraying with my ATV and the engine just doesn't like it. Heat builds up and the battery wears down.

But as mentioned above, the attachments are just not that great. First, without a PTO, you are buying extra engines with the equipment. Second, they don't back up well. Third, everyone I've known with a rotary mower says they tear themselves up after some use -- pulleys come off, hitches come loose, and cotter pins shake out making for interesting events.

Now, enter my Alamo flail mower. This is a solid, commercial piece of equipment with an 11 HP Honda engine. It is great on the grass but just wouldn't work for me in my rough fields -- a great machine but not the right tool for my job. If I had cut the fields early and often it would have been ok, but I couldn't and so it never got to meet its full potential. I have it posted for sale now because I got the tractor and the ATV crowd has lots of interest in it. But I wouldn't recommend it unless you want to mow big lawns -- not fields.

End of screed.

Thanks,

Rod

 

[Whiskey]

OK, that's it......


I nominate Bob Skurka & MikePA the offical nubie answering tag team....

Well put and nicely said guys

 

[rico304]

I went the same route Rod did and got an ATV with attachments. (Swisher Plow, front bucket, and a tow behind cart) I loved it, until I tried out a friends tractor. I thought I would be ahead of the game getting a "mini tractor" that I could use for fun on the trails. It would work, but Rod hit all the problems you will run into. I am going to sell my Polaris and get a tractor that fits my needs. I did love my four wheeler set up, it just doesn't work well after you start comparing to tractors..... hmmmm... actually you should get a Polaris 500 with attachments.....and I know where you can get them! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
You can see the Swisher setup in action if the site is still available. It is www.quadivator.com. Scroll down to the movie section and it shows how they work. (Looks much easier on the movie than in real life though! haha) Go figure!
Good luck! I'd let you know which tractor I think would be best, but the guys that are answering you led me to the tractors I am looking at. Lots of good info here. ALL FOR FREE! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Soundguy]

Sounds like an SCUT in the 18-24 hp range would suit you fine!

I'd look at a small TC or a TZ series from NH.

Soundguy