Another dealer visit, more thinking

[daTeacha]

I managed to get some time Saturday to drive the 1/2 hour or so to a 3rd Agco dealer in my area. The reason for the trip is that this one has an ST28A in stock. The other two don't.

What I found out is this: The small-medium chassis machines do not have the low hanging glass fuel filter bowl found on the ST25A. The size is very nice for my needs, but the hydro unit comes with only one brake and the tech felt no hydro should be equipped with turning brakes. His opinion is that I need a gear tractor with a shuttle shift since I'm used to gear machines. I thought the pressure needed to back up was extremely high. Probably intentional, but it sure would get to be an annoyance if doing a lot of back and forth work, which I do. I also thought the proximity of the brake pedal to the foward pedal for the hydro was an accident waiting to happen. It made me think of the unintended acceleration situation that Audi had to deal with in the '70s. At least twice while driving the thing, I pushed the forward pedal instead of the brake.

They had a ST40, older model, with loader and 276 hours. It has a shuttle shift, tilt wheel, suspended seat, foot throttle, 12x12 tranny, and a lot of nice stuff. It's a little bigger than I need, but it didn't look as big as the ST34A for some reason.

 

[TobaccoRoad]

Hey daTeacha,

Do you have a Kama dealer near by? I just took possession of the 55HP version. Very nice powerful tractor. I didn't have a dealer in the area, so I had mine delivered.

Good Luck,
TR

 

[daTeacha]

No Kama, no Kioti. Mahindra is new, no service department that I can see.

 

[EFC]

If the ST40 is a little to big a 55hp Kama would be WAY to big.

Buck

 

[dwenham]

One thing to keep in mind, on a hydro machine, the brake is for parking only, I probably have not used the brake on my Kubota in at least a year, since I park on a level surface. With hydro, let off the pedal, tractor stops, NOW.
Dave

 

[daTeacha]

That goes back to the question about engine braking on a downhill with a hydro. I frequently move down hills with a pretty good load. I use the engine and 4wd as a speed control with my gear Kubota. In driving the Case around, it seemed that on the one little hill they had the tractor did not stop when I let off the hydro pedal. There was no loader or load on it to really judge, but it didn't stop nearly as quickly going down hill as it did on the flat. I would need engine braking acting on all 4 wheels (or 4 wheel brakes) when going downhill with a load in the bucket -- would a hydro provide that in your opinion/experience?

 

[Wom]

Every hydro machine I have used will creep to some degree on a hill, although not much. The steeper the hill and heavier the load, the more it will roll. Also, high range will have the tendency more than low. When I mow my front yard, which is hilly, in high range it will roll several feet after releasing the pedal if I do not use the brakes or put a little pressure on the reverse pedal. I have hauled bucket loads of dirt down some steep hills, and in low range it will still want to roll slowly after releasing the pedal. This is using the JD 4110 which does have the left-side brakes. Unlike some others, I have found the split brakes to be very useful. On ground that is even close to level, rolling is not an issue.

 

[DAP]

Here's my advice ... NEVER never depend on anything to stop your tractor except the brake .. even with the Hydro. The ONLY time your tractor will stop by taking your foot off the forward or reverse pedal is if you are on level terrain. Removing your foot from the pedal does not stop and secure the tractor, it merely eliminates any momentum created by the transmission.

You will be surprised how much a hydo, especially with a loader full of dirt, snow, etc, will move, after you've lifted your foot of the pedal ... and for many reasons.

 

[daTeacha]

My use of engine braking is to control the rate of descent, in other words, to slow the tractor, or I guess more accurately, to keep it from speeding up going downhill. I use the brake to actually stop.

However, with a loaded bucket (only about 400 to 500 lb for this machine), going downhill and using the brake often skids the rears due to the weight transfer to the front. The engine braking acting on the front wheels is a major contributor to controlling speed in this situation. This is with a small tractor -- about 1000 lb. bare, rears loaded with about 80 to 100 lb in each, 210 lb. of me on the seat, and 130 or so lb. of concrete on the 3 pt. Basically, counting me, I have almost half the weight of the bare tractor on the rear end, and it still gets light. That's why I'm wondering about engine braking with a hydro. Would a hydro tend to slow the tractor in that scenario? Would I need to hit the reverse pedal to get the front wheels involved in braking? Would that hurt things? Just using the brake may not be enough on my hills with a load on the front.

 

[DAP]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( .... That's why I'm wondering about engine braking with a hydro. Would a hydro tend to slow the tractor in that scenario? Would I need to hit the reverse pedal to get the front wheels involved in braking? Would that hurt things? Just using the brake may not be enough on my hills with a load on the front. )</font>

Most Hydros have 3 "speed ranges" Low, Medium, High". Think of em as gears if ya want, although they are not gears. Smaller tractors may have 2 ranges.

If you have a load in a thousand lb tractor in low speed range with 4 WD engaged and braking is not enough, then you are in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong load on the wrong machine.

Engine braking and hydro machines is a non sequitor - if you slightly release pressure from the forward pedal, you slow down - VERY DIFFERENT from BRAKING ... and if there are vertical forces acting on the physics of the moment, you may not even slow at all.

Methinks, if you haven't drove one already, you need to drive a HST machine ...