SCUTs, why so little competition?

[orgt]

I am just curious, why is it that "lesser-known" brands don't seem to compete with Kubota's wonderful but pricey BX series? The TZ from NH is even more expensive, ditto for JD machines.

This market must have huge upside. In addition to all the folks who quickly discover that there are many things that a garden tractor cannot do (tons of this and other forums), there is a huge new-ish market with the tens of thousands of folks who buy themselves a MacMansion each year and HAVE the dough to get the "better" stuff (which is why they will drive a Mercedes when a Camry would do just as fine a job) I see them all around here with farmland being gobbled up by developers. I still travel quite a bit and I see the same thing all across the country.

Anyway, I could see all these brands from Japan, Korea, India, China, etc. who have been building tractors for decades offer very good Sub Compacts at lower prices. Why don't they? Am I missing something?

[flusher]

Originally Posted by orgt

I am just curious, why is it that "lesser-known" brands don't seem to compete with Kubota's wonderful but pricey BX series? The TZ from NH is even more expensive, ditto for JD machines.

This market must have huge upside. In addition to all the folks who quickly discover that there are many things that a garden tractor cannot do (tons of this and other forums), there is a huge new-ish market with the tens of thousands of folks who buy themselves a MacMansion each year and HAVE the dough to get the "better" stuff (which is why they will drive a Mercedes when a Camry would do just as fine a job) I see them all around here with farmland being gobbled up by developers. I still travel quite a bit and I see the same thing all across the country.

Anyway, I could see all these brands from Japan, Korea, India, China, etc. who have been building tractors for decades offer very good Sub Compacts at lower prices. Why don't they? Am I missing something?

Northern Tool has a 20-hp SCUT (a rebadged Chinese Jinma) with FEL and 4-ft box blade for $9200 and free shipping. Last year my new 21-hp B7510HST with LA302 FEL cost $12,600.

FREE SHIPPING — NorTrac Tractor with Ag Tires, Front End Loader and 48in. Box Blade — 20 HP |Tractors | Northern Tool + Equipment

I assume that these two tractors qualify as SCUTS. Or are you referring to tractors with even smaller engine hp?

[jordanh]

I seriously doubt most folks would consider the 20hp nortrac to be a SCUT. Its too big and heavy to compete in that market, in my opinion.

SCUT's seem to be marketed more towards folks who need/want a bigger and faster mowing machine that can still do occasional gound engagement work with small impliments. They are too small and light to do regular serious ground engagement tasks efficiently. You would need to move up to a CUT for that.....and the nortrac 20hp is probably better categorized at the bottom of that spectrum along with the CK20.

[LoneCowboy]

Well, cuz a SCUT is a waste of time.
I mean, why bother?
for 12 grand, you can get a real 24 to 28hp tractor that really does things instead of pretending and is almost physically the same size.

Besides, most rich people have plenty of money, what they don't have is time. they would rather hire someone (hopefully me. )

No market, cheaper to rent for the occasional uses on small <1 acre properties and for 1ac+ you might as well get a CUT, the cost is the same.

[MessickFarmEqu]

Originally Posted by orgt

I am just curious, why is it that "lesser-known" brands don't seem to compete with Kubota's wonderful but pricey BX series?

Quite simple. While the BX may seem "pricey", in reality its very hard to build that much tractor for less money. I am not sure that any company can sell you a hydrostatic tractor, loader, and mid mount mower anywhere near the price that a BX1850 goes for. Kubota has such a strangle hold on this market it would be next to impossible for another company to sell the volume of product needed to be profitable.

[flusher]

Originally Posted by jordanh

I seriously doubt most folks would consider the 20hp nortrac to be a SCUT. Its too big and heavy to compete in that market, in my opinion.

SCUT's seem to be marketed more towards folks who need/want a bigger and faster mowing machine that can still do occasional gound engagement work with small impliments. They are too small and light to do regular serious ground engagement tasks efficiently. You would need to move up to a CUT for that.....and the nortrac 20hp is probably better categorized at the bottom of that spectrum along with the CK20.

I guess my problem is with Kubota calling its BX series "sub-compact". The engine gross hp ranges from 15-hp for the BX1500 to 23-hp for the BX24. By your definition the BX series contains both SCUTs and CUTs.
Question: what's the price now on a new BX1500 with FEL?

[orgt]

Originally Posted by LoneCowboy

Well, cuz a SCUT is a waste of time.
I mean, why bother?
for 12 grand, you can get a real 24 to 28hp tractor that really does things instead of pretending and is almost physically the same size.

Besides, most rich people have plenty of money, what they don't have is time. they would rather hire someone (hopefully me. )

No market, cheaper to rent for the occasional uses on small <1 acre properties and for 1ac+ you might as well get a CUT, the cost is the same.

You totally missed the point of my post.

(Former) city slickers don't need or want a "real" tractor and this thread is not meant to discuss SCUT versus CUT versus UT etc, this has been done ad nauseam anyway.

Let me just give you an actual example of what I mean. Around here a Kubota BX1850 with mower is quoted at well above 9K, a BX2350 or Massey GC2300 at well above 11K. What if "smaller" competitors offered a machine with the same capabilities for say, 2K less? After all, the difference seems to be 3-5K when you look at bigger machines so it must be possible. I also notice that many of these manufacturers offer longer and better warranties, which can be an extremely good selling point (look at what happended with Huyndai/Kia, the big 3 used to laugh at them... )

[coasterez]

I think sales volume is the driving factor. That, coupled with the realities that, though smaller, SCUT's aren't a whole lot cheaper to make than CUTS.
SCUTs have a useful place for the MacMansions who are looking for a soft-tracted, nimble mower that can also move mulch and a little dirt, plow their drives, and tow a garden cart.... and do it in style. Some just have to have the "bigger" or "best" of every thing. Many of the Macmansions are 4000+ sq. feet, yet only two people "live" there (when they're not working to pay for it). How much square footage do 2 people really need? Same with their tractors, cars, boats, gadgets, etc.

Bota has a near lock on this market, for the most part, it appears to me. John Deere may play there just to maintain name recognition; not sure. However, with farmland constantly being turned into estate neighborhoods, it is certainly a growing segment.

There are a number to choose from: Kubota, Deere, MF, Mahindra,Cub Cadet, Simplicity, and more. TYM introduced the K2 this year, which also fits this demographic, though a bit more capable and is a true CUT. The problem is, it's not cheap. I think the high price says a lot about what it costs to make these things. There used to be other players that have since disappeared, like Honda, Gravely, and Wheel Horse. Clearly, one can fail at it, even if your products are outstanding.

[aesanders]

Wheel Horse's are still around, although I wouldn't put them in this same lineup:

Toro - Lawn & Garden Tractors

[jordanh]

Power Trac's are the next best thing....in fact I'd own a Power Trac before I'd own a bx kubota or even the smaller b's. For its size and power....hard to beat a powertrac.