turbo diesel tractor or not???

[JimParker]

On the aviation engine thing... No comparison really.

Goal of an aircraft engine: produce as much horsepower as possible from an very lightweight engine, while remaining incredibly reliable for a limited amount of time (generally 1200 to 2000 hours). For most aircraft, that equates to many, many years of operation (average personal-use airplane flys well under 300 hours per year).

Goal of a tractor engine: produce as much torque as possible from a heavyweight engine, while remaining incredibly reliable for many years of "normal" farm operation. (One of my older farming buddies says one "farm year" of tractor use comes to about 1,500 hours. Seems a bit high to me, but what do I know -- I'm not a "real farmer", I just play one on my ranch!)

It's kind of like comparing a racing bicycle frame to your utility trailer frame. They are made differently for very different purposes. Neither one would be worth a darn if used for the other purpose!

 

[machmeter62]

A high altitude turbocharged air cooled gasoline engine has ABSOLUTELY nothing in common with a terrestial turbodiesel engine, so just ignore the fact that high altitude air cooled turbocharged gasoline engines have a 300 hour shorter life cyle than non turbocharged aviation gasoline engines. A terrestial turbodiesel will go thousands and thousands of hours before a rebuild is required, while an aviation turbocharged gasoline engine might make it a couple hundred...

SkyPup:I agree with your statements. I haven't done my homework on the trend for turbos on the smaller generation tractors they are now making. I haven't looked at the cu. in. displacement either! But it is my belief, if the engines are less than 100 cu. in. with a turbo; unless it has an altitude compensator on it, the life of the engine will be shortened due to heat factor of too much continous boost with ground engagement implements. Or maybe add some type of "waste gate" to dump the boost at sea level?

Also, thanx for posting those pictures awhile back of your "flying machine" and the scenic tour!!

 

[jcmseven]

I have been incredibly pleased with the Yanmar turbodiesel in my JD 3720. It is intercooled also. It runs beautifully and will easily outperform a naturally aspirated version of the same engine. I have had both and there simply is no comparison. This question was discussed ad nauseum in the JD forum last year when a poster who seemed to enjoy inflaming the other posters asked what seemed a harmless question about whether to purchase a turbo or non-turbo JD mid frame compact. Of course, almost all the posters sided with the more powerful tractor if he could afford it. The discussion quickly turned to a heated one about longevity and efficiency. My opinion at the time and still my opinion is that the modern diesel turbo in a compact tractor is still a low heat low RPM engine that is built plenty strong to handle the extra heat of turbo boost. True, it might last a couple hundred hours less than a non-turbo engine of the same make, but we are talking thousands of hours of use. My JD dealer, using him as an example only, says of the hundreds of JD 3520 and 3720 machines he has sold, and the hundreds of 4000 series machines, he has had yet to see any come back with a turbo-engine related problem. Not to say it cannot happen but it does not happen often. What I can definitely say is that my current 3720 burns about the same amount of fuel at WOT as did my older 4310 and less at lower RPM. It also does about everything better, both PTO and ground-engaging. In short, if one goes with a respected company and noted engine manufacturer (Yanmar, for example) the likelihood that the engine would not outlive the machine it is in is really small.

John M

 

[machmeter62]

John M.: You might have saved me in this discussion by stating your JD has INTERCOOLERS, which has been my point in this discussion of reliability and longevity of internal combustion engiines. Thanx!

 

[machmeter62]

I have been incredibly pleased with the Yanmar turbodiesel in my JD 3720. It is intercooled also. It runs beautifully and will easily outperform a naturally aspirated version of the same engine. I have had both and there simply is no comparison. This question was discussed ad nauseum in the JD forum last year when a poster who seemed to enjoy inflaming the other posters asked what seemed a harmless question about whether to purchase a turbo or non-turbo JD mid frame compact. Of course, almost all the posters sided with the more powerful tractor if he could afford it. The discussion quickly turned to a heated one about longevity and efficiency. My opinion at the time and still my opinion is that the modern diesel turbo in a compact tractor is still a low heat low RPM engine that is built plenty strong to handle the extra heat of turbo boost. True, it might last a couple hundred hours less than a non-turbo engine of the same make, but we are talking thousands of hours of use. My JD dealer, using him as an example only, says of the hundreds of JD 3520 and 3720 machines he has sold, and the hundreds of 4000 series machines, he has had yet to see any come back with a turbo-engine related problem. Not to say it cannot happen but it does not happen often. What I can definitely say is that my current 3720 burns about the same amount of fuel at WOT as did my older 4310 and less at lower RPM. It also does about everything better, both PTO and ground-engaging. In short, if one goes with a respected company and noted engine manufacturer (Yanmar, for example) the likelihood that the engine would not outlive the machine it is in is really small.

John M

Where are the intercoolers located? In front of the radiator to pull in ambient air, and how large are they? Thank you in advance.---LEE

 

[EquipmentJunkie]

Turbochargers have been added to many modern diesels for emissions reasons as well as performance. Tier II and Tier III emission standards for diesels have virtually ensured that manufacturers add a turbo to keep the exhaust cleaner.

For myself, a turbo is a huge bonus. The turbo adds a lot of staying power to the engine when it comes under load. In short, the added air that a turbo packs into the combustion chamber allows for the addition of more fuel. The result is more power because more fuel equals more power.

 

[RobJ]

John M.: You might have saved me in this discussion by stating your JD has INTERCOOLERS, which has been my point in this discussion of reliability and longevity of internal combustion engiines. Thanx!

Are you saying the intercooler provides greater reliability and longevity? All it really does is cool the compressed air some so it can pack in more O2. All the heat, boost, ect has been calculated and engineered in the amount of fuel the pump puts out, turbo boost, etc. I'm pretty sure a tractors engine is set for a continuious load.

Heat will kil the engine, that's why guys with diesel trucks with chips and tuners should always have a pyro gauge. A 3 minute trip on a grade with exhaust temps at 1500+ degrees and you might say bye-bye to the engine. If I recall the top zone is just under 1000 degrees. Not sure, don't have one, trying to recall the diesels I ran on a dyno.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I noticed some tractors and models, like JD and Kioti 40 to 60 HP use turbo charged with a small cubic inch motor instead of a larger diesel with no turbo charged motor ,it just seems that a larger motor with no turbo would last longer and have fewer problems??????Thanks

I have a 2003 F350 4x4 crew cab with the 7.3 liter turbo charged engine. It came with a factory intercooler. The power and performance of that truck is amazing. Turbos are very effecient in pushing more air into the engine and boosting performance. You just need to operate them in the proper manner and perform needed maintenance. I would not hesitate to purchase a turbo charged diesel engine in a compact tractor.

My dad's AC 8050 has over 4500 hours on it now. Sure it's got some blow by but it's not that bad. 4500 hours. I know it's not a compact but it's still got 4500 hours on it. Engine has never been touched.

Mechanics tell me that the average life expectancy of a diesel engine is between 4000 and 6000 hours. I guess it depends on how long you're gonna put up with some blow-by once the engine is worn. The biggest question to ask anyone on this forum is how many hours are you going to put on your tractor each year? The average homeowner is going to use their units around 100 hours per year. That's 40 years use. These compacts will last the average homeowner a lifetime.

Their is the possiblilty of turbo failure in these units. But with technology and proper maintenance this should not be an issue. If I was looking for a tractor I would not be worried about being turboed or not. To me it's a non-issue.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Are you saying the intercooler provides greater reliability and longevity? All it really does is cool the compressed air some so it can pack in more O2. All the heat, boost, ect has been calculated and engineered in the amount of fuel the pump puts out, turbo boost, etc. I'm pretty sure a tractors engine is set for a continuious load.

Heat will kil the engine, that's why guys with diesel trucks with chips and tuners should always have a pyro gauge. A 3 minute trip on a grade with exhaust temps at 1500+ degrees and you might say bye-bye to the engine. If I recall the top zone is just under 1000 degrees. Not sure, don't have one, trying to recall the diesels I ran on a dyno.

Ford uses 1250 as the max temps pre-turbo. I rarely ever get over 1150 on my truck pulling 10K 5th wheel camper in the NC mountains. BUT, I've got a 4" downpipe and exhaust with high flow intake. A pyro pre turbo is a MUST in a chipped or programmed truck. I'm currently running an 80 HP program in my unit.

 

[Doc_Bob]

Intercooler just allows more air to be compressed and make more power.
Turbos like any device just require care and common sense and will last for years.

If you want a turbo, buy a turbo and be happy.
Bob