Page 1 of 8 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 74
  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8
    Location
    Wisconsin

    Default Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    I recently had the opportunity to attend John Deereís winter sales meetings in Sarasota, Florida. At one of the training stations there were 2 tractors, a John Deere and a popular competitive tractor. According to manufacturers printed specs each tractor puts out 45 PTO horsepower. Both were hooked to identical dynamometers. The John Deere 4520, when run at PTO speed, exceeded 45 HP. The competitive tractor only hit the upper 30s. I realize the test was for only 5 minutes, however extending testing time probably would have decreased the results for both. For several years I have taken for granted that printed specs from manufacturers were accurate or at least close. The slap in the face was that there is no required industry standard. The Nebraska Tractor Test for HP are voluntary for every manufacturer selling tractors outside of Nebraska. In the years I have been selling tractors, potential buyers by majority are pricing HP per dollar. Without an outside independent mandatory test who keeps the manufacturers honest.
    As Compact Tractor sales continue to increase buyers are being asked to pay for HP numbers which may only be attainable in the mind of the guy producing the brochure.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member rback33's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,446
    Location
    Kansas

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    I think a case can be made that this was not a true "test" anyhow. You changed two variables. The should have both been run on the same Dyno. I would like to see the spec sheets on both and cofirm that PTO HP was indeed the number compared. Would not surprise me if it were a 45 PTO Deere and 45 Engine Brand Z.

  3. #3
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7
    Tractor
    B7800

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    I can't believe that the John Deere won at the John Deere sales meeting!

  4. #4
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,273
    Location
    western NC
    Tractor
    JD 2320; 4520

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    I will say that I have had the opportunity to see and have tested several tractors prior to my moving, and it is true that JD in most cases underrates its machines. Most times the JD will be at least, if not more than, the advertised PTO HP. I do not know if the other brands are underrated, just that JD seems pretty conservative of its ratings, I suppose not to disappoint customers.

    John M

  5. #5
    Silver Member indianaEPH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    229
    Location
    South Central Indiana
    Tractor
    Kubota M59

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemrpaul
    I recently had the opportunity to attend John Deereís winter sales meetings in Sarasota, Florida. At one of the training stations there were 2 tractors, a John Deere and a popular competitive tractor. According to manufacturers printed specs each tractor puts out 45 PTO horsepower. Both were hooked to identical dynamometers. The John Deere 4520, when run at PTO speed, exceeded 45 HP. The competitive tractor only hit the upper 30s. I realize the test was for only 5 minutes, however extending testing time probably would have decreased the results for both. For several years I have taken for granted that printed specs from manufacturers were accurate or at least close. The slap in the face was that there is no required industry standard. The Nebraska Tractor Test for HP are voluntary for every manufacturer selling tractors outside of Nebraska. In the years I have been selling tractors, potential buyers by majority are pricing HP per dollar. Without an outside independent mandatory test who keeps the manufacturers honest.
    As Compact Tractor sales continue to increase buyers are being asked to pay for HP numbers which may only be attainable in the mind of the guy producing the brochure.
    I think that this is a excellent question. If there is no objective test standards then, I suspect, competitive pressures will push manufactures to streach the truth as to engine and PTO ratings. I even notice some weasle words on brocheres such as "per manufactueres test".

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,281
    Location
    Balls Creek, NC
    Tractor
    New Holland 1720

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    My dad sold tractors and farm implements for over 30 years at a local dealership. Back in the 60's and 70's Allis Chalmers were very well thought of and always submitted tot eh Nebraska tests. In most all tests the Allis units would test out higher than their rated output.

    I think that compact manufacturers today sorta skirt the numbers. They know that they are not held accountable for erroneous ratings so they inflate the ratings. I know that where my dad worked they always tested units after repair and in most all instances those old Allis units dynoed over their rated numbers. They always tested the units for extended intervals too. We need an independent testing lab to work on the compact tractor market to give some validity to these inflated numbers.

  7. #7
    Elite Member ovrszd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4,748
    Location
    Missouri
    Tractor
    Kubota M9540, JD2210

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemrpaul
    I recently had the opportunity to attend John Deere’s winter sales meetings in Sarasota, Florida. At one of the training stations there were 2 tractors, a John Deere and a popular competitive tractor. According to manufacturers printed specs each tractor puts out 45 PTO horsepower. Both were hooked to identical dynamometers. The John Deere 4520, when run at PTO speed, exceeded 45 HP. The competitive tractor only hit the upper 30s. I realize the test was for only 5 minutes, however extending testing time probably would have decreased the results for both. For several years I have taken for granted that printed specs from manufacturers were accurate or at least close. The slap in the face was that there is no required industry standard. The Nebraska Tractor Test for HP are voluntary for every manufacturer selling tractors outside of Nebraska. In the years I have been selling tractors, potential buyers by majority are pricing HP per dollar. Without an outside independent mandatory test who keeps the manufacturers honest.
    As Compact Tractor sales continue to increase buyers are being asked to pay for HP numbers which may only be attainable in the mind of the guy producing the brochure.
    At first it seemed odd to me that your first post on this website would be a biased report on a specific brand that you happen to sell. So I looked at your profile to learn more about you and found no information. So I decided to email you and discuss your findings and to my surprise you have chosen to not receive emails. Hmmmm, a dealer that doesn't want to stand behind his statement?? We have dealers on this website all the time that enter discussions and offer proveable facts.... Then I paused and realized rather than odd, this is actually amusing and carries absolutely no credability.
    Richard
    Kubota M9540, JD2210

  8. #8
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    225
    Location
    eastern Australia, God's own country
    Tractor
    kubota m125x

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    i do suspect jd underrate there HP figures, some manufacturers are also known to over rate them. the other thing to watch is how they rated them and what procedure they used. back to JD (sorry for comparing to bota but its a product i know) i was on nebraska test the other day looking at the HP to ground of JD after i read a post on this site and was impressed. so i compared the M120 bota to a 120 hp jd. the bota got hammered. except it used a stack less fuel. so i found a jd that used about the same fuel as the bota and guess what, it was ratted about 100hp but put exactly the same HP to the ground. when the jd was compared to kubota it seemed they lost very little in the drive line (litteraly none, or so it would seem). but if they have underrated the hp well it all makes sense dosent it.

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8
    Location
    Wisconsin

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    Ovrscd

    I have no biased agenda. I am not colorblind. I do sell JD equipment however I am a customer of product far more than I am a sales rep. I am a customer ever time I buy gasoline. I am a customer every time I go to the grocery store. Anytime I buy anthing I am a customer. I would hope and trust that what is represented in advertising and on product labels or brocures is accurate. I know something about tractors because thatís my job. I understand the value of horsepower. I farmed farm several years. I also am a pilot. Try taking off from a short runway on a hot day. Horsepower has value. It is true that most people may never take advantage or need the HP theyíre buying. Usually if you run short itís not because you wish you had 10 more horse, itís because you wish you had 50 more. As a consumer, I just want to know that I get what I pay for. As a sales rep I want to know that I represent my product accurately. . . I have changed my options which now include my email address.

  10. #10
    Super Member N80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,176
    Location
    SC
    Tractor
    Kubota L4400 4wd w/LA 703 FEL

    Default Re: Compact Tractor Horsepower Comparisons

    I think we'd all like to see accuracy, but no offense intended, when we hear that a selected brand x model didn't stack up to a selected JD model at a JD sales meeting, you can understand that we might not expect a great deal of accuracy in _that_ test either. Just good healthy skepticism. Keeps us all honest. Plus, there was another account about a test of JD vs kubota cabs where JD had pretty much stacked the cards in their favor. So skepticism can be a valuable asset in this market.

    I'd love to know how my tractor's hp rating was arrived at and love to be able to confirm it. Chances of either are slim, I suspect.

    I have heard of automakers underrating the hp in a lower line car compared to a higher line model with the same engine. Rumor has it that they both have the same hp but the lower model is underrated to ake the higher model seem like a better buy. True? I have no idea. Possible? Sure. Possible in the tractor biz? Probably.
    George
    South Carolina

    The size of government is inversely proprotional to the degree of freedom it affords.

    "What is truth?" Pontius Pilate

Page 1 of 8 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2014 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.