Criteria on Hydros

[jinman]

some of you gave me very detailed suggestions for a perfect hydro and a whole cut-drive-management system...but so far i am still more interested in the point if there are really a lot people who would pay more money for this kind of advanced technology...or how often do you have to use your tractor that this kind of investement makes sense.

Marco, the CUTs made by New Holland have a high-tech option called SuperSteer (SS) where the whole front axle pivots when turning. This gives an extremely tight turn radius.

The SS option costs about $1500 on the average CUT. Not everyone has it or thinks they need it (me included). There are many people who have it and love it. They will tell you that the money was well-spent. They could not say that if the technology was not reliable. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having problems with the SS front axle.

So, in my opinion, you can market advanced technology to some people, but not all people. You must make that technology reliable, or noboby will be happy with it and it will suffer in the market. Essentially, high tech and high reliability must be built into these products.

 

[Egon]

My mistake. It was a different type of transmission.


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/42935-do-you-think-device-can.html?highlight=unclehan

 

[john_bud]

Well... I, for one, think that perfect would allow for a greater range of HP.

I only said "pretty dern close to perfect" -- not all the way. [wink]

jb

 

[marco88]

Marco, the CUTs made by New Holland have a high-tech option called SuperSteer (SS) where the whole front axle pivots when turning. This gives an extremely tight turn radius.

The SS option costs about $1500 on the average CUT. Not everyone has it or thinks they need it (me included). There are many people who have it and love it. They will tell you that the money was well-spent. They could not say that if the technology was not reliable. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having problems with the SS front axle.

So, in my opinion, you can market advanced technology to some people, but not all people. You must make that technology reliable, or noboby will be happy with it and it will suffer in the market. Essentially, high tech and high reliability must be built into these products.

ok i see...another point i like to discuss...what are the most important current shortcomings of current hst...
is it the the higher noise level, higher fuel consumption, less power available on the tires, the higher price, the fact that you cannot change ranges on the move ...?

 

[jrepp]

Marco, Re: current shortcomings. (from my limited viewpoint)

1) Higher noise level - not an issue for me, the engine is many times louder than the hydro.
2) Higher fuel consumption - was not much of an issue until the price of petroleum products went up. Still would not be a factor in choosing hydro over gear.
3) Less power available - not much of an issue, I did what may not be an option for everyone, I jumped up about 10hp in tractor size to compensate for the hydro loss.
4) Cannot change ranges on the move - this is the biggest shortcoming/gripe I have with my tractor (I think this has been improved in the new '07 L series). I have trouble changing ranges even when completly stopped. The tractor must be on completly level ground with no load/pressure on the hydro system at all.

 

[marco88]

Marco, Re: current shortcomings. (from my limited viewpoint)

1) Higher noise level - not an issue for me, the engine is many times louder than the hydro.
2) Higher fuel consumption - was not much of an issue until the price of petroleum products went up. Still would not be a factor in choosing hydro over gear.
3) Less power available - not much of an issue, I did what may not be an option for everyone, I jumped up about 10hp in tractor size to compensate for the hydro loss.
4) Cannot change ranges on the move - this is the biggest shortcoming/gripe I have with my tractor (I think this has been improved in the new '07 L series). I have trouble changing ranges even when completly stopped. The tractor must be on completly level ground with no load/pressure on the hydro system at all.

interesting reply...so i understand what jinman said that technologies like supersteer or other are not really needed by everyone but how about a system where you can shift on the move...without having to stop your tractor, without having to use a clutch only by simply pushing a button...would you guys pay a premium price for that: lets say +$300??
maybe there also some dealers here which could tell me what kind of people might buy this?
is it only technology crazy guys or professionals who use there tractor every day or would also hobby users pay some $$ extra for this bit more ease of use?

 

[crk133]

it seems to me when people bring up the hst/gear debate the MAIN reason that gear people choose the gears has to do with the hp loss. those that choose the hst regardless would think that this reason has less importance so i guess if you are looking to increase market share of hst that would be the issue to resolve. on the other hand most small tractors are sold with hst... two different issues i think

 

[ozzie tractor]

4) Cannot change ranges on the move - this is the biggest shortcoming/gripe I have with my tractor (I think this has been improved in the new '07 L series). I have trouble changing ranges even when completly stopped. The tractor must be on completly level ground with no load/pressure on the hydro system at all.

hey how about a hydro which had a much wider output speed range and do away with the range gear shift all together. now there's something for you to think about. most hydro's only vary either the pump displacement or the motor displacement. i know JD had a dozer which did both but they where seperate units. if you combined them into one unit it would have to increase the operating range and still be reasonably compact. just my thoughts........

 

[ozzie tractor]

or here's another one, mount both the pump and the motor in line with each other and have a lock up clutch in between them, have this operate much like a automatic trans lock up clutch, so when the machine is being operated at full speed the shafts lock together and thus no internal loss. could improve fuel economy when travelling etc..

 

[jinman]

interesting reply...so i understand what jinman said that technologies like supersteer or other are not really needed by everyone but how about a system where you can shift on the move...without having to stop your tractor, without having to use a clutch only by simply pushing a button...would you guys pay a premium price for that: lets say +$300??
maybe there also some dealers here which could tell me what kind of people might buy this?
is it only technology crazy guys or professionals who use there tractor every day or would also hobby users pay some $$ extra for this bit more ease of use?

On New Holland's Class III Boomers with HST, the pushbutton option is partially used. There is a button for these transmissions that changes the swashplate in the hydraulic motor between 9º and 15º by a solenoid and hydraulic actuation. The Hydro pedal changes the angle of the swashplate in the pump only. Still, to provide enough range in the transmission, there are two gear ranges that have to be shifted manually. It would be nice to not to have to stop to be able to shift between the Hi range and Lo range.