Ritchie Brothers Auctioneers - Buyer beware!

[aczlan]

Valid point if you assume the buyer was knowledgeable of that brand of tractor. Do all hydro's use pedals, or do some use a lever like my Wheelhorse garden tractor?

AFAIK, no current or recent (last 10 years) "tractor" sized machines use levers unless they have been customized

For a major landscape company to do things like plugging a vent in a bellhousing to hide a leak may be legal (?), but the owner of that company has a different moral compass than I do. I suppose his mechanic would be in a bind, being told to do that as part of his job. I think I'd look elsewhere for work.

I agree. Plugging vents and turning down an injector pump to hide flaws would not be something that I would do or condone. Not telling someone that the drive motors are tired is to be expected in an auction, but to actively hide known issues, not so much.

Aaron Z

 

[brain55]

Again if you can't tell an engine is running on two cylinders and not 3 and can't tell that it bogged down with even a slight load, the auction isn't the place for you. All I did was make it stop smoking. They still got that machine for a steal even if they had to put an engine in it. The trencher attachment was worth more than than they paid for the whole machine. Again there was more than one to chose from.

I guess my morals for auction equipment are different than they would be face to face with a handshake.

My real point is that there are things that can be done that bidders at an auction should be aware of.

 

[DavesTractor]

Safety issues are obviously a different deal. I didn't do anything unsafe. If the backhoe or loader frame comes off somebody is going to get hurt. Just like I would not do anything in the area of the ROPS that would compromise its integrity. Hiding an oil leak, I'm not going to lose sleep over that in an auction situation. If I was selling to you face to face I could never do it.

Brain55, I think many people would agree with you and know that auctions can be a dumping ground for junk with hidden issues. So don't take offense, but I think if you can't do it face to face, you should not do it. I don't think we should have a morality for auctions and a morality for face to face. Some say it is OK to take a few things home from work if you work for a huge corporation since they are rich and owe me, or it is OK to cheat on taxes since everyone does it and the government wastes money, yada yada. But that is a slippery slope. Best to just call a spade a spade. Having said that, I'm far from perfect and it isn't always easy to practice what I preach! But I try.

That TLB with a cracked and repaired bellhousing was not a hypothetical situation. We took a JD110 in trade and they guy had welded the bellhousing and hid it nicely. We happened to spot it from below while doing a service. We had asked him point blank before we took it in if he had ever done any welding on it or knew if it had been welded. He said emphatically "no". So I called him on it and he said "too bad, you should have caught it". He said he was fine lying to a business, but he certainly would not have done so (per him) to an individual. I don't understand that. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. We could have sold that unit at auction and done well, since the guy hid the welds impressively. But we did not, I sold it to a local guy cheap and showed him the welds and told him if it breaks, he gets both halves. As-is, cheap, full disclosure. That cost me about $7500, but I sleep well.

Brain55, I know you were just doing your job and you have explained your position and you are not alone in thinking this way. But going forward, I'd suggest you give it a little more consideration.

OK, off my soapbox for now.

 

[DavesTractor]

...My real point is that there are things that can be done that bidders at an auction should be aware of.

I think your posts have been valuable as it is eye opening what sort of things can be done and we should be aware. Thanks for that, you might help a few people from being too trusting. We can argue right or wrong, but in reality it happens and we need to be aware.

 

[joshuabardwell]

To me, the lesson to be taken from this is that one must be extremely cautious when buying from auction. I'm a proponent of letting people make whatever arrangements they like, as long as they both opt-in. There are a lot of people who enjoy buying and selling at auction, and know full well that others will try to dump their junk there. As long as everybody is informed, then it doesn't bother me. And by "informed," I mean, "informed that others may be trying to actively rip them off by selling them a machine with a hidden problem." By way of example, everybody knows that the odds in Vegas favor the house, and that if you play long enough, the house will get your money. No question. But it's still not unethical for casinos to exist, because the players are full well informed of that fact when they walk in the door.

Me, when I buy from anywhere but a dealer, I always consider that the seller may be trying to rip me off or sell me a lemon, and I take that into account in the price I am willing to pay. It all comes down to the social contract that's in play, and the reasonable expectations (and legal obligations, of course) of buyers and sellers. If there is a disconnect between those expectations, that is where fraud may have occurred, or maybe the buyer was just green and got in over their head.

 

[brain55]

Honestly I felt worse for the guys that spent $10k on the worn out T300 than I did for the guys that got the MT-52 w/trencher running on two cylinders for $2000-2500 or the TC35 w/loader with the oil leak for $4000.

 

[murphy1244]

Safety issues are obviously a different deal. I didn't do anything unsafe. If the backhoe or loader frame comes off somebody is going to get hurt. Just like I would not do anything in the area of the ROPS that would compromise its integrity. Hiding an oil leak, I'm not going to lose sleep over that in an auction situation. If I was selling to you face to face I could never do it.

You altered the machine to hide a broken part. That's fraud.

 

[brain55]

You altered the machine to hide a broken part. That's fraud.

Okay, I stopped a machine from smoking. I put a plug in an already threaded hole to hide a leak, and I epoxied a key in the end of crankshaft rather than replace the crank. The only one of those that it would take a truly trained eye or operator to discover, is the plug in the clutch housing. The little MT52 was obviously running on two cylinders and the crank pulley had a wobble to it that all you had to do was open the hood to see. Even out here in California you would be hard pressed to get anywhere with a claim of fraud.

 

[murphy1244]

Okay, I stopped a machine from smoking. I put a plug in an already threaded hole to hide a leak, and I epoxied a key in the end of crankshaft rather than replace the crank. The only one of those that it would take a truly trained eye or operator to discover, is the plug in the clutch housing. The little MT52 was obviously running on two cylinders and the crank pulley had a wobble to it that all you had to do was open the hood to see. Even out here in California you would be hard pressed to get anywhere with a claim of fraud.

How do you even sleep at night??? What you did is fraud here. Not saying your going to get caught.

 

[brain55]

How do you even sleep at night??? What you did is fraud here. Not saying your going to get caught.

Trust me I sleep just fine. I am likely one of the most genuine honest people you would ever do business with. I run my business with the utmost integrity. The fact that I did a couple things that you consider fraudulent while I was employed by somebody else, well there isn't much I can say about that. I have a list of customers that would vouch for me.

Again my point was there are little things that can be done to hide or slow potential problems. If you are buying equipment at auction you have to assume this risk. Those were 3 pieces out of $1.5 million in vehicles and equipment we sold over the span of 3 auctions.

Telling you, this is what I did holds much more weight than a "I knew a guy" story.