new or used tractor for farm?

[ron_sc]

This is a follow-up from a thread I started last month -- thanks for all the helpful suggestions. We are buying a 140 acre farm that consists of 50 acres of pasture and 90 acres of woods. I don't plan to put up hay myself, but I would like to be able to bushhog parts of it at times. I also want to convert about 10 acres of the pasture into dove fields and food plots. The pastures are rolling hills, without any real steep slopes. The woods have some steeper areas, but still not too bad.

The guy I''m buying it from has a 1991 Case 495 2wd (no loader) that he is willing to sell for $9000. That seems a little high to me. He also has other older tractors and lots of equipment that will be sold at auction next month. I plan to go to the auction, mainly to try to pick up implements.

I've been looking at tractors at dealers since my last post. I have been very impressed by the local Kubota dealer (1.5 miles away) and by the John Deere dealer (35 miles away). I was looking at a 4wd Kubota M5040 with loader, at a price of around $26,000 (maybe a little less), but that about blows my budget. Yesterday, I went to the John Deere dealer. Out of about 40 tractors on the lot, probably 75% of them were 2wd 5x03 series models, and this dealer sold more than 250 of those over the past 2 years. The dealership owner suggested that a 5103 2wd with the 512 loader should suit my needs very well, and he quoted a price of $16,200. That seems pretty good to me, even though I had been leaning towards 4wd. For comparison, the equivalend 4wd (5105) with loader is $23,500.

Would I be making a mistake to get this cheaper (but new) 2wd tractor? I think I am leaning that way...

Thanks,
Ron

 

[redlevel]

You absolutely will not be making a mistake by getting the cheaper 2wd tractor.

I predict this thread will soon turn into another 2wd vs. 4wd thread, but before that happens, consider this; the tractor you have described is the tractor (whether it be Deere, Massey, Ford, etc.) that has been such a great tool for farmers and landowners in your state and mine for going on three generations now. A (roughly) 45 pto hp 2wd utility tractor, with draft control, that can be used to plow, harrow, plant, cultivate, spray, mow grass, bale hay, pull a wagon, power a generator, load a load of manure, and any one of a hundred other jobs you can think of. Would 4wd be nice? Sure. Are you severely limiting the usefulness of your tractor by not having 4wd? Absolutely not.

I'm not a Deere fan, and not a Kubota fan, but if it were me, I would try very hard to find something at the Kubota dealer that suited me. I did read that he is only 1.5 miles from your farm, didn't I? Have you looked at the M series, partucularly the M4900? The only problem I have seen with the Kubotas is the smaller utilities do not usually have draft control, and from what you say you want to do, I think you would benefit from it. It would be very nice to only have to drive 1.5 miles for filters, etc.

I'm with you. I think $9000 is very strong for the Case.

I usually opt for slightly used tractors. Peach growers and peanut growers in my area use tractors similar to these (NH 3930--4630 and similar Deere and Kubotas) to pull wagons out of the field/orchard during harvest. The dealers usually get them with 100-250 hours, still with warranty and with applicable financing incentives in place. You can usually save a couple thousand dollars on one of these. I bought a NH 6640 SLE from a dealer in Griffin, GA a few years back that had been used to cut infield grass at the Atlanta Speedway. I called it my race tractor. I saved several thousand dollars off new. You can also look for repossessed tractors, or those someone just decided they didn't want, with 200-300 hours on them. I have had very, very good luck buying used tractors like this over the years.

All that said, I believe you would be pleased with the Deere, and that it would do everything you asked of it. I am assuming that it is a true Ag Utility tractor and not a CUT. I'm not familar with them. I just went to the website and looked at the specs.

If you were a little closer to me, you could ride down to Moultrie, GA with me this Sat to the big annual winter farm equipment auction and spend that $6000 you are going to save on implements for your tractor.

 

[FULLPULL]

2wd is all we used until 2002 when i bought a TC40D NH .The 2wd tractors are good for agg use and the front loader is a plus .I never need 4wd until i got one they are great with the added draw bar pull you can do alot of work quickly .But over all we didnt need 4x4 added it is just a nice option.If i had to mow or bush hog a field ,plow or bale i would use a 2wd even light loader work is not bad with loaded tires or weights.The hp and size tractor that fit your needs means more.40to60 hp tractors will do alot of work on a 140 acer farm .Its always cheaper to buy hp the first time around than to trade up in two or three years .I would also look at the agg tires for a 2wd .Thats just my opinion .

 

[Z-Michigan]

I don't know the details of that Case model, but if in good shape it's worth considering.

The JD 5103 is an excellent, basic tractor. The 2wd vs. 4wd issue has been discussed extensively in other threads. You should definitely look that up, but I won't repeat it here. If 2wd makes sense for you then I think a JD 5103 would be a great choice. It would also be worth looking at the 2wd versions of the Kubota MX5000 and M4800, and the New Holland tractor in that range (I think it is TD60 but I'm not sure - it's not the TN series which is bigger and more fancy). I would also ask the JD dealer about the 2wd version of the 5105 - it is the same size and looks very similar, but is slightly different mechanically.

Keep in mind that the 512 loader on a JD is a permanent attach loader which cannot be removed conveniently, unlike the 522 loader or many loaders on competing brands.

 

[Keith_B]

This is a follow-up from a thread I started last month -- thanks for all the helpful suggestions. We are buying a 140 acre farm that consists of 50 acres of pasture and 90 acres of woods. I don't plan to put up hay myself, but I would like to be able to bushhog parts of it at times. I also want to convert about 10 acres of the pasture into dove fields and food plots. The pastures are rolling hills, without any real steep slopes. The woods have some steeper areas, but still not too bad.

The guy I''m buying it from has a 1991 Case 495 2wd (no loader) that he is willing to sell for $9000. That seems a little high to me. He also has other older tractors and lots of equipment that will be sold at auction next month. I plan to go to the auction, mainly to try to pick up implements.

I've been looking at tractors at dealers since my last post. I have been very impressed by the local Kubota dealer (1.5 miles away) and by the John Deere dealer (35 miles away). I was looking at a 4wd Kubota M5040 with loader, at a price of around $26,000 (maybe a little less), but that about blows my budget. Yesterday, I went to the John Deere dealer. Out of about 40 tractors on the lot, probably 75% of them were 2wd 5x03 series models, and this dealer sold more than 250 of those over the past 2 years. The dealership owner suggested that a 5103 2wd with the 512 loader should suit my needs very well, and he quoted a price of $16,200. That seems pretty good to me, even though I had been leaning towards 4wd. For comparison, the equivalend 4wd (5105) with loader is $23,500.

Would I be making a mistake to get this cheaper (but new) 2wd tractor? I think I am leaning that way...

Thanks,
Ron

The $9000 is a bit high for a tractor that is nearing twenty years old and is for all purposes the same size as the JD 5103 that you can get for around $13K without the loader. Both are about 42 PTO hp.

If you are planning to finance the interest rates should be looked at, as there are several brands that offer good rates, and the money saved could allow you to purchase a bit more tractor with one brand than you can with another.

The 5103 is a nice tractor for what it is made to do and will do the mowing and food plot work without any problems.

Where I would want a 4wd is with the loader work. Loader work with a 4wd is a lot easier than loader work with a 2wd. When you add weight on the front of a 2 wd you essential shift the weight from the rear tires to the front, and this makes the rear wheels spin easier.

I note that you are not going to be doing the hay yourself. Have you considered going with a CUT in the 35-45 HP range? They are great for the mowing and food plot work you plan on, and 4wd in them has become virtually universal. They will also handle the 6 foot implements, which are more plentiful in the used market.

If you like the Kubotas a Grand L3940 and L4240 units look like they will do everything you want to do. These units have synchro-shuttle transmissions, which make them nice for loader work. http://www.kubota.com/h/products/L40specs.pdf

Kubota also has the L4400 which is more of an economy model, but still has some nice features. http://www.kubota.com/h/products/L4400Comps.pdf
It will also do all the tasks you are looking to do, and should come in at a pretty decent price for the unit.

I'm not familiar with the price of the JD twenty series CUTS. I priced the 990 at a couple of local dealers and they came in at $21,000 plus for them, so I did not bother pricing the twenty series.

 

[john_bud]

Hi,

If you are a handy type and want to save some $$ and have experience with selecting, testing and evaluating the condition of used equipment, then you should probably go the used route. But not the 16 year old Case for 9k. Unless it is in pristine condition with implements.

Ford 5000's, 4000's, NH 3930's and others would be worth looking into. Heck, you could probably buy a Ford 7000 series with a cab and loader for under 18k.

As for 2wd vs 4wd. The biggest issue is traction with the loader. That means that you will have to add more weight to the rear. Fill the tires, get some wheel weights and put on a 3pt implement or weight box. For 2wd your combined counterweight should be 1.5x the loaders capacity (or more). Put as much on the axle as you can, the the rest on the 3pt.


I don't know you, but it sounds like you don't know too much about tractors and such and are more interested in getting work done than messing around fixing old iron. If that is correct -> the JD solution sounds about right. It may be a bit light on hp, (50 engine 42 pto) but it depends on how much field work you will be doing.

jb

 

[ron_sc]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses --

redlevel, I was thinking the same thing, this type of tractor has been used successfully around here for the past 50 or 60 years, so why wouldn't it be a good choice now? I will have to take another look at the Kubotas too, especially since the dealer will be a new neighbor. They did have a couple of newer used tractors there that looked pretty good, including a 2000 M5400 4wd with loader for ~$14,000.

FULLPULL, at this point I don't see much heavy loader work, mainly mowing and plowing. I will definitely get ag tires on whatever I get

Z-Michigan, I read through some of those 2wd vs 4wd posts, still undecided. I have 4wd on my truck, and on my ATV, but it seems like tractor traction is much different with the weight on the rear wheels. I'm not sure when I would need to remove the loader.

Keith_B, at this point, I can't think of too much heavy loader work, although there are some thick grown over areas that I might want to clear for small food plots. I guess I could also hire that out too. I have thought about a smaller ~40-45 4wd CUT. I looked at the L4400, and it seemed nice, but also quite a bit smaller than the M5040 or the JD 5103. Still, pricewise, that is probably a more fair comparison with the 5103. How would the L4400 be for discing/plowing say 5 acres at a time?

john_bud, I am not all that handy, have no experience with tractors, and like you say, I am more interested in getting work done. You mention that the JD may be a bit light on hp -- what would you recomend for 5-10 acres of food plots, and a similar amount of mowing?

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Z-Michigan]

Given that you have no heavy-duty plans for a FEL, you may want to skip it initially and see if you ever feel the need for one. There are 3ph implements that will do some of the things you could do with a loader (e.g. dirt scoop, pallet mover). No FEL would save you roughly $4000-5000. I would be sure to buy a model that you could later put an FEL on if you end up with uses for one.

If you want/need the hp you might also look at the M5040 2wd version without the FEL - I think that would be somewhere around $17000. Might be limited availability as most people looking at those want 4wd.

 

[flusher]

This is a follow-up from a thread I started last month -- thanks for all the helpful suggestions. We are buying a 140 acre farm that consists of 50 acres of pasture and 90 acres of woods. I don't plan to put up hay myself, but I would like to be able to bushhog parts of it at times. I also want to convert about 10 acres of the pasture into dove fields and food plots. The pastures are rolling hills, without any real steep slopes. The woods have some steeper areas, but still not too bad.

The guy I''m buying it from has a 1991 Case 495 2wd (no loader) that he is willing to sell for $9000. That seems a little high to me. He also has other older tractors and lots of equipment that will be sold at auction next month. I plan to go to the auction, mainly to try to pick up implements.

I've been looking at tractors at dealers since my last post. I have been very impressed by the local Kubota dealer (1.5 miles away) and by the John Deere dealer (35 miles away). I was looking at a 4wd Kubota M5040 with loader, at a price of around $26,000 (maybe a little less), but that about blows my budget. Yesterday, I went to the John Deere dealer. Out of about 40 tractors on the lot, probably 75% of them were 2wd 5x03 series models, and this dealer sold more than 250 of those over the past 2 years. The dealership owner suggested that a 5103 2wd with the 512 loader should suit my needs very well, and he quoted a price of $16,200. That seems pretty good to me, even though I had been leaning towards 4wd. For comparison, the equivalend 4wd (5105) with loader is $23,500.

Would I be making a mistake to get this cheaper (but new) 2wd tractor? I think I am leaning that way...

Thanks,
Ron

The average retail price (dealer's price for a "clean" tractor) for that Case 495 is about $8200 without an FEL.

It's up to you to decide whether that 495 is average, above average or below average in appearance and performance.

How many hours showing on the tractormeter (be sure that it's working)? All gauges working? PTO and 3pt hitch working OK? Any fluid leaks? Sheet metal in reasonable good shape? Tire wear? Brakes OK? All gears work OK? Steering OK? Be sure to check the fuel system for leaks, especially at the injector. Look for blue or white exhaust smoke, neither of which is a good sign. Check the breather tube for blowby when the tractor is running.

 

[Keith_B]

Keith_B, at this point, I can't think of too much heavy loader work, although there are some thick grown over areas that I might want to clear for small food plots. I guess I could also hire that out too. I have thought about a smaller ~40-45 4wd CUT. I looked at the L4400, and it seemed nice, but also quite a bit smaller than the M5040 or the JD 5103. Still, pricewise, that is probably a more fair comparison with the 5103. How would the L4400 be for discing/plowing say 5 acres at a time?

Ron, my Mahindra 4410 is a 41 hp CUT, and I have used it to clear out old fence rows with the loader, even knocking down some trees. The grown over areas aren't a problem for a bigger 4WD cut. My tractor has never been used to plow five acres at a time, but it does a pretty good job on the two gardens I had out last year. In regards to disking, my BIL used it to disk hayfields last spring when he sowed new seed on them. The area of these fields was well over 5 acres.

The 4wd on the CUTs allows them to perform the same tasks as some bigger 2wd tractors, while having an overall smaller package. Some of these, like my 4110, aren't much smaller than the 5103.

On the flipside, I can do some things with my tractor that the 4000 Ford can't do, due to the 4wd.