Tractor Comparisons and HP

[MtnViewRanch]

Originally Posted by wkpoor

I think I must qualify something here. And first off I'm pro any brand. I own or have owned several different brands. I brought this up because in looking at the newer stuff I started to realize Manufacture A for example may call a particular tractor 75HP and B MFG call his 60HP and then come to find out they are really the same size and power machine. It a marketing game. JD won't even publish an engine HP and even asked my dealer and he didn't have any literature to tell me what is was. All my older stuff has only PTO and power to the ground. I used to assume PTO was engine but thats a new game also. Now I find out probably because of people like myself asking questions, brochures say in fine print " as tested by XXXX". Whatever happened to independant testing?

I am looking at John Deere 5025 series, 4020 series, 3020 series, and 90 series brochures as we speak, and all have engine hp and pto hp listed. Maybe your dealer needed some new brochures.

[wkpoor]

My tractor is a 1996 5400. I'll bet things have changed a little then. Maybe the new stuff is all rated at the engine and PTO.

[DK35vince]

Originally Posted by wkpoor

JD won't even publish an engine HP and even asked my dealer and he didn't have any literature to tell me what is was.

Every brand of tractor I have looked at or gotten brochures for over the years have listed the gross engine HP and the PTO HP.
Including John Deere.

[wkpoor]

I have both the operators maunal and technical manual for my 5400 and can't find the engine HP in either.

[Z-Michigan]

Originally Posted by DK35vince

Every brand of tractor I have looked at or gotten brochures for over the years have listed the gross engine HP and the PTO HP.
Including John Deere.

And Kubota even lists both gross and net engine HP, in addition to PTO HP...

[wkpoor]

I went to the JD web site and noticed the new 5403 they are bringing out now lists the engine HP. Maybe in the 90's thet were still rating them like farm tractors.

[Soundguy]

There sure is. And it is up to the user / potential buyer to educate themselves on their intended purchase before shelling out umpteen thousand dollars on it.. As long as the deale ris not lyeing, and the facts are laid out.. it should just be a issue of matching features with intended work, and budgeting.. etc.. ( this site being among the best when it comes to that user 'research ' )

Soundguy

Originally Posted by Farmwithjunk

Once upon a time, the majority of tractors were sold to people who more than likely made a living with it. That buyer was very familiar with each model and brand.

Today's manufacturer sells to a different crowd. Some of todays buyers never sat on a tractor until they buy their first one. I'm thinking there's a certain amount of "smoke and mirrors" sales strategy aimed primarily at that crowd.

[Farmwithjunk]

Originally Posted by Soundguy

There sure is. And it is up to the user / potential buyer to educate themselves on their intended purchase before shelling out umpteen thousand dollars on it.. As long as the deale ris not lyeing, and the facts are laid out.. it should just be a issue of matching features with intended work, and budgeting.. etc.. ( this site being among the best when it comes to that user 'research ' )

Soundguy

One of the sources of confusion, other than misleading sales people, IS internet websites, this one included at times. While they may provide good info, they're also a great source for "dis-information" too. For someone who knows tractors top to bottom, that's not so much an issue. It's that "first time buyer" who has trouble distinguishing fact from fiction......is it actual real life experience from a knowledgeable user or jaded opinion from a "johnny-come-lately" who's "facts" are merely repeats of what they read or heard somewhere else, or somewhere in between? I've seen many an instance where people get involved with tractors, then learn far more on the subject than they ever thought possible in a relatively short time period, and then assume that since they know "so much", they must know it all. And then they start passing on their "wealth of info" with little regard to what they DON'T know.

Opinions are valuable, so long as they come from facts and experience, and NOT from someone who's opinion is merely rationalization for buying what they bought. We get a LOT of that on the internet. For the average Joe buying his very first tractor, it's not always so clear as to who's opinion really has merit.

"Facts" (like dealer specifications) come in many flavors. All depends on who compiles those facts, how that "propaganda" is skewed, and how the end user/consumer assimilates the information given as to their actual worth. In most cases, manufacturer supplied "facts" are written in the best interest of ONE group.....The MANUFACTURER.

It would be the salvation of some manufacturers and the death knell for others if I ever get my wish. INDEPENDENT TESTING of all new tractor models sold , big or small, similar to Nebraska Testing. Even then, all this "who's best" would still be subjective, but at the very least, it would provide a level playing field.

[Soundguy]

To clarify, when i said facts and research.. i was refering only to specifications.. and not other peoples 'opinion' based comments of what was better or worse.

If the prospective buyer can set down and comapir belt, pto and DB hp, fuel consumption numbers, etc, etc.. they should at least be better of fthan walking in with nothing but a checkbook for the sales staff to tear apart.. (grin)

As for disinformation.. I've heard more of that from salespeople!!

Soundguy

Originally Posted by Farmwithjunk

One of the sources of confusion, other than misleading sales people, IS internet websites, this one included at times. While they may provide good info, they're also a great source for "dis-information" too. For someone who knows tractors top to bottom, that's not so much an issue. It's that "first time buyer" who has trouble distinguishing fact from fiction......is it actual real life experience from a knowledgeable user or jaded opinion from a "johnny-come-lately" who's "facts" are merely repeats of what they read or heard somewhere else, or somewhere in between? I've seen many an instance where people get involved with tractors, then learn far more on the subject than they ever thought possible in a relatively short time period, and then assume that since they know "so much", they must know it all. And then they start passing on their "wealth of info" with little regard to what they DON'T know.

Opinions are valuable, so long as they come from facts and experience, and NOT from someone who's opinion is merely rationalization for buying what they bought. We get a LOT of that on the internet. For the average Joe buying his very first tractor, it's not always so clear as to who's opinion really has merit.

"Facts" (like dealer specifications) come in many flavors. All depends on who compiles those facts, how that "propaganda" is skewed, and how the end user/consumer assimilates the information given as to their actual worth. In most cases, manufacturer supplied "facts" are written in the best interest of ONE group.....The MANUFACTURER.

It would be the salvation of some manufacturers and the death knell for others if I ever get my wish. INDEPENDENT TESTING of all new tractor models sold , big or small, similar to Nebraska Testing. Even then, all this "who's best" would still be subjective, but at the very least, it would provide a level playing field.

[Farmwithjunk]

Originally Posted by Soundguy

To clarify, when i said facts and research.. i was refering only to specifications.. and not other peoples 'opinion' based comments of what was better or worse.

If the prospective buyer can set down and comapir belt, pto and DB hp, fuel consumption numbers, etc, etc.. they should at least be better of fthan walking in with nothing but a checkbook for the sales staff to tear apart.. (grin)

As for disinformation.. I've heard more of that from salespeople!!

Soundguy

45+ years of fooling with my own tractors has taught me a few lessons. One is to stick with a dealer who shoots straight. I've narrowed the field to a couple dealers for the most part. With them, I don't get bad info. Maybe that would change if I went outside my small circle, so I'm not taking that chance, so long as my "favorite dealers" stay in business. I'd suspect tractor dealers aren't unlike any other sales business nowdays. You get a few really good ones, a few average, and all the attention gets directed to the few BAD ones. Fortunately, I'm in an area where I don't HAVE to deal with those sorts. We have enough reputable, family owned dealers that the "con men" don't see my dollars. I have however, ran across a LOT of internet comments that are worded in what could be a confusing manner to some, or outdated, or just plain ol' wrong. That's not so much a problem for the "well informed", but for the relative new-comers, ANY source of questionable info is a dangerous spot. In the end, we are all responsible for our own actions. It's best to carefully weigh the "evidence", but take it all with a grain of salt. Nothing replaces "hands on experience". Best to become as informed as possible. Then we know "right from wrong" no matter where we hear it. JMHO, and worth all you paid for it