Oil & Fuel Need help! Water in hydraulics IH 404

[bigredbrad]

I spending my Christmas break helping my dad with an ongoing problem with his old 404 IH tractor. The power steering pump "screams" while running,and so I pulled the oil filter and screen figuring the oil filter was plugged. The hydraulic oil has turned to white milk. Wanting to drain and refil, I found the 1 inch drain plug under the rear section of the tractor and drained about 5 gallons out, replaced a new filter, cleaned the screen etc. Also used air to try and blow more out of the bucket cylinders, hand controls and hoses etc. I knew I would not get everything, but figured I had made a good start probably getting 80-90% and with 6 gallons of new hydraulic fluid thought I would be in good shape, even if there was some residual contaminated oil.

After refilling the case with the plug by the transmission shifter and restarted the engine, it was not more than 5 seconds that the pump was howling again. I pulled the filter and it was pure milk already - no clean fluid at all.

I have done a search here, but nothing I found was really specific to this type of tractor. A lot of good information about the 404's, but nothing that really addressed these questions:

My questions other than someone just telling me what the problem is are:

Is there seperate or additional drain plugs that need to be pulled to completely drain this hydraulic system?

I read a thread that said the seat needed to be removed and fluid sucked out of there? True or false?

Are the rear drive axles in this same hydraulic system? Are there plugs to drain the axle? Is the transmission on the same hydraulic system?

I also read about some owners having a leak sucking air in through the hydraulic cooler. This could be a possibility, but this tractor spends its entire life outside uncovered, and I suspect that we just have lots of water in the system.

Before going on to other things, I would like to know that I have completely drained the hydraulic system as I think the first time I did not completely evacuate the bad oil and I think I should start there before going on to other options. Before doing another hydraulic oil change, I would like to make sure I am pulling all the proper plugs and dumping ALL the oil possible.

Sorry for jumping right into a question without a proper introduction! I am trying to help dad get this done over Christmas break.

Many thanks in advance and congrats on a great forum

bigredbrad

 

[art]

When the oil is that bad we normally wind up replacing the oil several times before it stays clean.

The final time CaseIH Hytran is expensive but it holds more water in suspension then anything I have seen. Saves the filter and pick-up from sitting in water or ice.

The first time when seen that bad we just dump some oil from TSC or NAPA or just cheap hydraulic oil and run it for an hour or two.

The pump, that may be shot from running that type of oil through it!

 

[bigredbrad]

HI Art - thanks for your response, I have read some of your other posts and it appears that you are very knowledgeable on these tractors. I figure we are in for at least one and maybe two more fluid changes. What I am concerned with is that we are not getting everything drained out before replacing with new fluid.

Can you help answer some of the questions I have about additional drain plugs, if the rear axle is in the same hydraulic system, and what you know about having to remove the seat to get at another resorvoir that needs sucked out?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

thanks

bigredbrad

 

[art]

The big plug in the bottom will drain the whole compartment.

There are many reinforcement ledges and little areas in the housings for it to sit till you get it all.

 

[Cpjlube]

I have had this issue with my 254 when it sat outside full-time. Every time I changed the fluid it went right back to milky. Finally I pulled the plugs and let it drain for over 24 hours. Then I pulled the FEL hoses on each cylinder and manually pushed the fluid out of each one. After that the fluid has stayed clear. Sorry, not sure wether there is more than 1 drain plug or not, but if you knew the capacity for the machine you would know wether you were close to empty just by measuring what drained out.
Oh and if it's anything like any tractor I've stored outside, keep a bucket over the shift lever.
Chuck.

 

[Stevebob]

The water in the fluid is ongoing
It must be a design flaw that creates moisture in the cavities.
There is a drain plug under the seat on the right side.
I also have a 404 and it squeals all the time. More so in the winter I believe due to moisture

 

[dieselscout80]

It’s not used long enough to get the hydraulic fluid hot enough to make water disapate.

My IH 424 does the same thing. When I first got it I tried changing the fluid to get it cleared up but it never helped the moisture always came back. I’ve had it since 2010 with no issues.