Questions concerning TA on older IH

[Kernopelli]

A buddy at work has been having problems with his 766. He said he was having classic symptoms of a clutch slipping ( tractor wouldn't pull well under load in high gears/range and would pull progressively better in lower range or gear) this slowly got worse. He said he took a drain bolt (plug..something?) out of the bottom of the clutch housing an a fair amount of oil came out. He said he took some gas and an air hose and blew the gas into the housing in an attempt to "wash" any oil off the clutch. He let this drain out/dry and things were much better for a while.

Started having the same symptoms and took it to the local CIH dealer and they replaced "3 seals" for $1500 and told him he should be good to go. You guessed it. Now the tractor is back at the shop with the same symptoms and they are telling him that these symptoms are caused by the torque amplifier. He said he hasn't used the TA but a hand full of times in all the years that he's owned the tractor and those have all been since this issue started and it actually helped the tractor pull itself better. I asked him if the tractor is still getting oil in the housing and he isn't sure...hasn't rechecked it. Dealer wants $4K to replace the TA ( I see them online for $700 or so..$3600 labor???). He told dealer to kick rocks, he only paid $4k for the tractor years ago. He asked me and I don't think this sounds like the TA is the issue.

I don't know squat about these tractors and have never owned anything with a TA system but really think these guys are trying to spin him.....Then again, I don't know if they are saying the TA is responsible for the main clutch getting oil soaked? Is that possible? What do you think about this whole deal?

 

[RickB]

There are some fuzzy details here, one way or another.
1. Nobody in their right mind splits a tractor, changes a couple seals, and leaves an oil-soaked clutch disc intact.
2. A faulty TA could be the entire problem.
3. A faulty main clutch could be the entire problem, and if it truly was getting oil on it and not replaced, is likely to BE the problem.
4. If no pressure testing was done on the TA, nobody knows for sure what is going on, although a thoroughly trashed TA unit can still show good pressures.
Either you aren't giving us all the info, your buddy isn't giving you all the info, the dealer isn't giving your buddy all the info, or the original repair was not correct or thorough enough, possibly because your buddy didn't authorize a complete repair.

The fact that the tractor was bought for $4000 has no bearing on anything. A full-blown TA and clutch job will probably spoil $4k at dealer shop rate. I worked at a CIH dealership in 1995 & 1996 ad the job was worth $2500 then.

 

[Kernopelli]

There are some fuzzy details here, one way or another.
1. Nobody in their right mind splits a tractor, changes a couple seals, and leaves an oil-soaked clutch disc intact.
2. A faulty TA could be the entire problem.
3. A faulty main clutch could be the entire problem, and if it truly was getting oil on it and not replaced, is likely to BE the problem.
4. If no pressure testing was done on the TA, nobody knows for sure what is going on, although a thoroughly trashed TA unit can still show good pressures.
Either you aren't giving us all the info, your buddy isn't giving you all the info, the dealer isn't giving your buddy all the info, or the original repair was not correct or thorough enough, possibly because your buddy didn't authorize a complete repair.

The fact that the tractor was bought for $4000 has no bearing on anything. A full-blown TA and clutch job will probably spoil $4k at dealer shop rate. I worked at a CIH dealership in 1995 & 1996 ad the job was worth $2500 then.

Thanks Rick

Don't think they left the clutch oil soaked when they split it. It did work OK for a short time after replacing the seals....just not very long before he was having the same symptoms again. This is why I asked him if he had checked to see if oil was in the housing again ( which he had not...he was a little upset and just called them to come pick it up again before he did any further investigating on his own).

So a faulty TA itself will cause the same symptoms (?) I assumed it might but the rub is, he said the symptoms got better when he engaged the TA which makes me lean toward thinking the TA is probably functioning correctly and it is the main clutch that's slipping. Comments welcome on possibility of TA slipping while not engaged but working better when operator engages it?

Can you explain how a TA works and the importance of a pressure test.

What are your impressions on TA elimination kits...they appear to cost about the same as a reman'ed TA.

No...I DON"T know the whole story and he doesn't know enough to give it to me. This is why he has asked me to try to help him figure out what the best way to go is. The $4k was for TA replacement only...I asked specifically about this. He said they told him if it needed clutch work or anything else was needed other than TA replacement, it would be additional.

 

[RickB]

Thanks Rick

Don't think they left the clutch oil soaked when they split it. It did work OK for a short time after replacing the seals....just not very long before he was having the same symptoms again. This is why I asked him if he had checked to see if oil was in the housing again ( which he had not...he was a little upset and just called them to come pick it up again before he did any further investigating on his own).

So a faulty TA itself will cause the same symptoms (?) I assumed it might but the rub is, he said the symptoms got better when he engaged the TA which makes me lean toward thinking the TA is probably functioning correctly and it is the main clutch that's slipping. Comments welcome on possibility of TA slipping while not engaged but working better when operator engages it?

Can you explain how a TA works and the importance of a pressure test.

What are your impressions on TA elimination kits...they appear to cost about the same as a reman'ed TA.

No...I DON"T know the whole story and he doesn't know enough to give it to me. This is why he has asked me to try to help him figure out what the best way to go is. The $4k was for TA replacement only...I asked specifically about this. He said they told him if it needed clutch work or anything else was needed other than TA replacement, it would be additional.

It's not accurate or fair for you to post (and I quote) "took it to the local CIH dealer and they replaced "3 seals" for $1500 and told him he should be good to go" when in fact the main clutch was replaced. There's two sides to every story and your side of this one is suspect already.
The TA is a planetary unit with two multiple wet disc clutch packs and a sprag that sits between the main clutch and the gear transmission. Either the direct drive or the 'torque amplifier' drive element of the TA unit can be prone to failure over time. Loss of drive can be attributed to the TA unit, the hydraulic system that operates the TA, or the main clutch. There are instances where it is impossible to tell for certain without examining the main clutch for signs of slippage.
TA elimination kits are as you suggest, nearly as costly as a reman TA unit. They cut the number of speed choices in half and lower the resale value of the tractor. Whether that is a good deal or not is up to the owner. TA replacement and the installation of an elimination kit are both labor intensive, requiring a double split of the tractor.