So. A while back my tractor just quit in the middle of a job on me. Felt like it ran out of fuel. Much research and stuff later, thought we found the problem.
Spent this last week trying to resolve it....the next part is the email I just sent to some folk, hoping they had a better week than I did!
Anyone here have any ideas that don't cost money?? I use this rig with a bench saw (off the PTO) to cut all my wood (which is ALL our heat here)
Anyone here know anything 'bout tractors? FWIW, it's an IH 384, with a CAV injection pump....
anyways, here's the email.... rant on?
So, looking back last week, we had determined the problem was with the high pressure injection pump not providing the 2400 psi that was required to open the injectors.
Checking things out, Island Fuel Injection was perfectly willing to rebuild/repair the pump for a mere $700.
No big deal. Hey, it's only $700, right? (excuse me while i lean out the window and heave up my lunch...)
Then the neighbor pops by, a mutual aquaintance from church had had the same problem, had rebuilt it himself with a kit. Only cost him $55.
Great. get the kit, (cost me $93, maybe he is special or something). Spend the past 2 and 1/2 days removing the pump, taking it apart, replacing all the seals and o-rings, and putting it back together.
AN ABSOLUTE BLAST WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST CLUE, NO DIAGRAMS OR SERVICE MANUAL, AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE DOING..................!!!
So. We put the pump back on the tractor. Great. Fine. Hey, it even looks like it belongs there!
So. Use the manual prime to get fuel into the pump (took forever), bled it, then got out the starting fluid, and prepared to start the old girl so we can get the 50 cords of wood we have sitting in the yard cut.
So we crank 'er over.
Hmmmm.
Nothing.
So.
Pull off the line we checked with before, to make sure that we actually DO have the 2400 psi that we need. Hey, we just rebuilt this thing right? Should work just fine, right?
Wrong. Before , we had maybe 2 or 3 psi.
Now, we had nothing. Zilch. Nada. Absolute Zero.
Well, we turned the air blue for a while (myself and Ron from next door...). Checked everything. Nope, looked good, I actually had found a document on the internet the night before that was extremely close to this pump, so as far as we could determine, we had done it correctly.
So. Did some more digging and checking, checked the flow from the lift pump (which pumps from the tank to the injection pump). It pumped fuel..........sort of..............kinda......
So. We chewed this over, and came up with this theory - the lift pump has to provide at least enough pressure to help the injection pump to build up the required 2400 psi, so if the lift pump is fried, maybe that is part of the problem? Hey, this actually made sense.
So. Got on the phone to the local IH dealer. Spoke with a mechanic, he said that pump should shoot fuel 3 to 4 feet. Huh. Well, 1 to 2 inches don't sound good does it? Nope he said, don't sound good at all.
Could it cause this problem we are having? Yep, could definitely contribute to this behaviour.
Great! We actually figured something out that made sense here!!
So. Do you have this little pump in stock?......... uh No. Has to be shipped in from Toronto, be in next week. (got 3 days of holidays left at this point, and lots of wood to cut.)
........unless you want it airshipped...........
So. Had the pump airshipped in, was in at 8 the next morning. Great, went in and picked it up.
Got back, Ron popped over, took the old pump off, started putting the new pump on........
Hmmmm. Something not quite right here......this blasted hydraulic pump for the bucket and 3 point hitch is in the way!!
So. Much muttering, careful work with a screwdriver and hammer later, the new pump is installed. Start priming the system, fuels starts spurting everywhere from the lines we just installed into the new pump..............
So. Investigation showed that the old pump still had o-rings, seals, plastic rubbery thingamajigs in the fuel line inlet/outlet location. Did the new pump come with such accessories? Hell no, why would it? You are supposed to magically KNOW that such minor issues will come up with a new pump, the dealer should not have to tell you such minor details should he? Naaaaa.......... So we used the ones off the old pump. Hey, they worked, stopped the leaks.........
So, primed everything, check for 2400 psi at the injector.........
Nothing. Absolute zilch.
Grrrrrrr..................words could not express what we felt at this point...............so we went over to Ron's and started cutting his mountain of logs with chainsaws.....
So. Two hours, and very sore backs later (hey, we're not young anymore!), we stopped. And muttered, and thought, and talked about that stupid pump (hey we did rebuild it right, put right back together the way it came out........didn't we????...with all new seals and o-rings) talked to the friend from church, nope, he was mystified as well, though he thought the problem we were currently haveing might be in the top end...yep, we kinda figured that ourselves.
"ya know, if we put that plate thingamajog that hooks down onto that funny shaft on the wrong side of that wierd bulge, ya think that might stop that wierd clutch thingy that is suppsed to pop out at speed and engage from doin' it's thing?"
"yeah, but how we gonna tell that? besides i'm sure we did it right.....does bug me though....."
"ya, but if that there clutch thingy ain't engaging right, then that means that wierd inpeller thing with all them funny timing marks won't move, right?"
"****, but how...."
"so , if we pull off that dere side inspection plate, and spin the engine while lookin' inside, we can see if that thing with all the funny numbers on moves....."
"......damm, let's go."
So. we go back over to my place, pop the plate, and spin the engine. Darn. That funny thing wtih the numbers did spin.So THAT wasn't it.
So. We were there again anyways. Popped to cover off the top end of the pump (where all the funny linkage thingys are that we kinda guessed at puttin' back together) and started lookin'.........
"nope, that looks right.....we sure that this goes in here?.....yeah.....wonder if this spring tension is set correctly.?......hmmmm"
I wandered inside to check that document again, hoping something would pop out at me......looked at this page.....that diagram....nothing there....what's thiss......HEY!!!
WE HAVE THAT HOOKED UP BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO. TWO SOLID HOURS OF BLUE AIR LATER......we get it hooked up according to the diagram, prime and bleed the whole system, go to check the flow at the injector....
HEY, WE GOT FUEL THERE!!!!!!!!!!!
.........only one problem................it's the same little , bitty squirt we had when this all started.........****.
So. Where are we now?
Well........
So, looking back last week, we had determined the problem was with the high pressure injection pump not providing the 2400 psi that was required to open the injectors...............
(i am thinking quite fondly right now of my nice shiny sledgehammer out in the barn.....thinking it may deserve some excitement with a red and white pile of rusty iron in my yard.....)
mutter, mutter, mutter................
Spent this last week trying to resolve it....the next part is the email I just sent to some folk, hoping they had a better week than I did!
Anyone here have any ideas that don't cost money?? I use this rig with a bench saw (off the PTO) to cut all my wood (which is ALL our heat here)
Anyone here know anything 'bout tractors? FWIW, it's an IH 384, with a CAV injection pump....
anyways, here's the email.... rant on?
So, looking back last week, we had determined the problem was with the high pressure injection pump not providing the 2400 psi that was required to open the injectors.
Checking things out, Island Fuel Injection was perfectly willing to rebuild/repair the pump for a mere $700.
No big deal. Hey, it's only $700, right? (excuse me while i lean out the window and heave up my lunch...)
Then the neighbor pops by, a mutual aquaintance from church had had the same problem, had rebuilt it himself with a kit. Only cost him $55.
Great. get the kit, (cost me $93, maybe he is special or something). Spend the past 2 and 1/2 days removing the pump, taking it apart, replacing all the seals and o-rings, and putting it back together.
AN ABSOLUTE BLAST WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST CLUE, NO DIAGRAMS OR SERVICE MANUAL, AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE DOING..................!!!
So. We put the pump back on the tractor. Great. Fine. Hey, it even looks like it belongs there!
So. Use the manual prime to get fuel into the pump (took forever), bled it, then got out the starting fluid, and prepared to start the old girl so we can get the 50 cords of wood we have sitting in the yard cut.
So we crank 'er over.
Hmmmm.
Nothing.
So.
Pull off the line we checked with before, to make sure that we actually DO have the 2400 psi that we need. Hey, we just rebuilt this thing right? Should work just fine, right?
Wrong. Before , we had maybe 2 or 3 psi.
Now, we had nothing. Zilch. Nada. Absolute Zero.
Well, we turned the air blue for a while (myself and Ron from next door...). Checked everything. Nope, looked good, I actually had found a document on the internet the night before that was extremely close to this pump, so as far as we could determine, we had done it correctly.
So. Did some more digging and checking, checked the flow from the lift pump (which pumps from the tank to the injection pump). It pumped fuel..........sort of..............kinda......
So. We chewed this over, and came up with this theory - the lift pump has to provide at least enough pressure to help the injection pump to build up the required 2400 psi, so if the lift pump is fried, maybe that is part of the problem? Hey, this actually made sense.
So. Got on the phone to the local IH dealer. Spoke with a mechanic, he said that pump should shoot fuel 3 to 4 feet. Huh. Well, 1 to 2 inches don't sound good does it? Nope he said, don't sound good at all.
Could it cause this problem we are having? Yep, could definitely contribute to this behaviour.
Great! We actually figured something out that made sense here!!
So. Do you have this little pump in stock?......... uh No. Has to be shipped in from Toronto, be in next week. (got 3 days of holidays left at this point, and lots of wood to cut.)
........unless you want it airshipped...........
So. Had the pump airshipped in, was in at 8 the next morning. Great, went in and picked it up.
Got back, Ron popped over, took the old pump off, started putting the new pump on........
Hmmmm. Something not quite right here......this blasted hydraulic pump for the bucket and 3 point hitch is in the way!!
So. Much muttering, careful work with a screwdriver and hammer later, the new pump is installed. Start priming the system, fuels starts spurting everywhere from the lines we just installed into the new pump..............
So. Investigation showed that the old pump still had o-rings, seals, plastic rubbery thingamajigs in the fuel line inlet/outlet location. Did the new pump come with such accessories? Hell no, why would it? You are supposed to magically KNOW that such minor issues will come up with a new pump, the dealer should not have to tell you such minor details should he? Naaaaa.......... So we used the ones off the old pump. Hey, they worked, stopped the leaks.........
So, primed everything, check for 2400 psi at the injector.........
Nothing. Absolute zilch.
Grrrrrrr..................words could not express what we felt at this point...............so we went over to Ron's and started cutting his mountain of logs with chainsaws.....
So. Two hours, and very sore backs later (hey, we're not young anymore!), we stopped. And muttered, and thought, and talked about that stupid pump (hey we did rebuild it right, put right back together the way it came out........didn't we????...with all new seals and o-rings) talked to the friend from church, nope, he was mystified as well, though he thought the problem we were currently haveing might be in the top end...yep, we kinda figured that ourselves.
"ya know, if we put that plate thingamajog that hooks down onto that funny shaft on the wrong side of that wierd bulge, ya think that might stop that wierd clutch thingy that is suppsed to pop out at speed and engage from doin' it's thing?"
"yeah, but how we gonna tell that? besides i'm sure we did it right.....does bug me though....."
"ya, but if that there clutch thingy ain't engaging right, then that means that wierd inpeller thing with all them funny timing marks won't move, right?"
"****, but how...."
"so , if we pull off that dere side inspection plate, and spin the engine while lookin' inside, we can see if that thing with all the funny numbers on moves....."
"......damm, let's go."
So. we go back over to my place, pop the plate, and spin the engine. Darn. That funny thing wtih the numbers did spin.So THAT wasn't it.
So. We were there again anyways. Popped to cover off the top end of the pump (where all the funny linkage thingys are that we kinda guessed at puttin' back together) and started lookin'.........
"nope, that looks right.....we sure that this goes in here?.....yeah.....wonder if this spring tension is set correctly.?......hmmmm"
I wandered inside to check that document again, hoping something would pop out at me......looked at this page.....that diagram....nothing there....what's thiss......HEY!!!
WE HAVE THAT HOOKED UP BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO. TWO SOLID HOURS OF BLUE AIR LATER......we get it hooked up according to the diagram, prime and bleed the whole system, go to check the flow at the injector....
HEY, WE GOT FUEL THERE!!!!!!!!!!!
.........only one problem................it's the same little , bitty squirt we had when this all started.........****.
So. Where are we now?
Well........
So, looking back last week, we had determined the problem was with the high pressure injection pump not providing the 2400 psi that was required to open the injectors...............
(i am thinking quite fondly right now of my nice shiny sledgehammer out in the barn.....thinking it may deserve some excitement with a red and white pile of rusty iron in my yard.....)
mutter, mutter, mutter................