COMPLETELY puzzled by the Case 448

[floyd47]

Hi all!

It's been a while since my last post regarding the 448 (S/N 14029195) project...a job, family and 4 acres of property to take care of limit my work time on the 448. Anyway...electrical/ignition questions...Here's the rundown of components that were replaced BEFORE any of my current issues.

1) Starter rebuilt (gear was stripped)
2) Coil (old one had shorted secondary windings)
3) Points/Condenser (nothing left of the contacts on old ones)
4) BatteryCables (In place of no battery and cables)
5) Solenoid ( Not replaced, tested good.Disconnected leads from 2 small terminals/ Ran jumpers from battery to small terminals on solenoid/ engine cranked strong)
6) Wiring ( thoroughly checked entire loom ,wire by wire for continuity/ replaced any questionable wires w/new, soldered the ends and shrink wrapped)
7) Key switch ( not replaced/checks out as far as continuity)
8) Plugs/Wires( wrong plugs in it and I've seen better wires in the garbage)

OTHER info De-carbed cylinders set valves...engine cranks strong showing 105 psi per cylinder. At least it was taken care of until it was parked 20 years ago!

As I said...the engine cranks strong (and yes, it IS getting fuel, Points are opening) but....NO SPARK

I have 12v at BAT terminal at all times and positions
I have 12v at IGN terminal in START and RUN positions
12v at COIL + while cranking 12v COIL - at the points while cranking
12v at key SART to solenoid (should be assumed because engine cranks)

Items in question
1) Regulator/rectifier
2) Stator

I only question these because I'm at a loss at this point. Being not DIRECTLY related to starting/spark. I read ( not on this forum) the Stator should have .11/.19 ohms resistance WITHOUT the engine running ( can anyone verify this for me?) I have no resistance, just continuity. Also, added extra ground to R/R.

WHAT IN THE HECK AM I MISSING!

Though the Key switch "tests" good, could this be the problem? I doubt it, because there is voltage right up to the points but no spark. Condenser isn't shorted to ground. Still no spark when I pull the lead off the points terminal.

GRRRRR!

ANY ideas will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,
Floyd In Wisconsin

 

[Oldtractorfixer]

OK back to basics. If this is a coil and points system, regulators and stator are not involved. They are for charging. So, 12volts to plus side of coil. neg. side of coil goes to points. Points close and coil is grounded, points open and spark is produced in High voltage side of coil as circuit collapses. With key on (12v to coil) you should be able to open points with a screwdriver (don't short screwdriver or it will not work) and get a spark. If you can't make sure they are adjusted so they go closed and they have clean contacts. If you can get spark now turn over the engine and watch the points, are they opening and closing?
This should get you started on troubleshooting. Things to look for along the way, wire to condenser shorted, wire to coil from points shorted, connection of wire to points shorting. Good luck, let us know what you are finding.

 

[oldballs]

Go to 301 Moved Permanently for a dedicated Case/Ingersoll web site.

 

[hydriv]

Hi all!

It's been a while since my last post regarding the 448 (S/N 14029195) project...a job, family and 4 acres of property to take care of limit my work time on the 448. Anyway...electrical/ignition questions...Here's the rundown of components that were replaced BEFORE any of my current issues.

1) Starter rebuilt (gear was stripped)
2) Coil (old one had shorted secondary windings)
3) Points/Condenser (nothing left of the contacts on old ones)
4) BatteryCables (In place of no battery and cables)
5) Solenoid ( Not replaced, tested good.Disconnected leads from 2 small terminals/ Ran jumpers from battery to small terminals on solenoid/ engine cranked strong)
6) Wiring ( thoroughly checked entire loom ,wire by wire for continuity/ replaced any questionable wires w/new, soldered the ends and shrink wrapped)
7) Key switch ( not replaced/checks out as far as continuity)
8) Plugs/Wires( wrong plugs in it and I've seen better wires in the garbage)

OTHER info De-carbed cylinders set valves...engine cranks strong showing 105 psi per cylinder. At least it was taken care of until it was parked 20 years ago!

As I said...the engine cranks strong (and yes, it IS getting fuel, Points are opening) but....NO SPARK

I have 12v at BAT terminal at all times and positions
I have 12v at IGN terminal in START and RUN positions
12v at COIL + while cranking 12v COIL - at the points while cranking
12v at key SART to solenoid (should be assumed because engine cranks)

Items in question
1) Regulator/rectifier
2) Stator

I only question these because I'm at a loss at this point. Being not DIRECTLY related to starting/spark. I read ( not on this forum) the Stator should have .11/.19 ohms resistance WITHOUT the engine running ( can anyone verify this for me?) I have no resistance, just continuity. Also, added extra ground to R/R.

WHAT IN THE HECK AM I MISSING!

Though the Key switch "tests" good, could this be the problem? I doubt it, because there is voltage right up to the points but no spark. Condenser isn't shorted to ground. Still no spark when I pull the lead off the points terminal.

GRRRRR!

ANY ideas will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,
Floyd In Wisconsin

Floyd,
Remove both spark plugs.

Remove the wire going to the points from the negative post of the ignition coil.

Set your multimeter to the OHMS scale.

Clip one of the test leads to a good solid ground and the other to the end of the wire that you just removed from the coil.

Remove any belt that might be on the PTO clutch and fully engage the clutch by pushing the lever forward and locking it in.

Watch your multimeter reading as you rotate the engine by hand by rotating the PTO clutch assembly.

If the points are opening and closing properly, the multimeter reading will show that to be happening. It will go from Zero resistance to Infinity and back to Zero every time the points close. If you are seeing a reading other than Zero when the points are closed, then those points have a problem. It may be that the point surfaces are oily or dirty but something in the way of a foreign material is preventing a resistance-free contact from being made.


Here is another test.


Get a short length of electrical wire or use a jumper wire with alligator clips on either end.

Find a good solid ground point for one end of that jumper lead and attach it.

Take one of the spark plugs you already removed and shove it into the coil high tension lead.

Then ground the outer shell of the spark plug to a clean spot on the cylinder head and orient it so you can see the gap.

Turn the ignition switch to ON.

Take the other end of the jumper wire and tap the negative post on the coil. Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.

Every time you tap that post, you should see a spark jump across the electrodes of the spark plug.

The tapping is the same as what the points do. When they close, they complete the electrical circuit to allow the coil to be energized. When you remove the jumper from the coil post, that is the same as the points opening up and causing the field to collapse in the coil and induce high voltage to the spark plug.

Just because parts are brand new does not mean that they work. They are a mass-produced item and are subject to mistakes. Assume nothing - suspect everything. It is testing, testing, testing that will find the real problem.

 

[floyd47]

Hey all,
Just wanted to give a sincere "thanks" to everyone for the tips and advice. Sometimes you get so wrapped up and frustrated you forget the basics. So thanks for keeping me focused. I'll chime in when I get some time with the machine. Had a big Chinese Elm limb break off the other day, so that's tomorrow's project.

Floyd in WI