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  1. #1
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    Jun 2015
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    Wisconsin
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    Ingersoll 4018

    Default Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    I have an Ingersoll 4018 that I have added rear 3-pt hitch and rear PTO to.

    The rear 3-pt hitvch and the rear PTO are actually OEM Case units.

    The rear 3-pt operates like it should, the rear PTO does not.

    The issue is that when the travel control level is in neutral - everything is good.
    The traval control level moves easily in reverse and the tractor moves but for some reason, the travel control level does not move to forward position - system acts like the travel control valve has back pressure or something?
    If the level is forced to the forward position - the system actually blows the hydraulic line off.

    When the tractor is not running, the travel control level moves easily in both directions.

    I have the pump going to the 'in' port on the rear PTO valve and the 'out' port of the rear PTO valve coming back to the 'in' port on the travel control valve.

    What's going on & how do I fix this issue?

    Any help will be appreciated.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    I replied to your PM. Did you not receive it?

  3. #3
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    Jun 2015
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    Ingersoll 4018

    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    Quote Originally Posted by hydriv View Post
    I replied to your PM. Did you not receive it?
    hydriv,

    No - sorry - I did not see anything yet.

    Thanks for the reply..

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    The following was sent to you on June 17th around 11 PM.

    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO

    Production of the 4018 began for the 1989 model year. At that time, Ingersoll was still putting the rear PTO valve behind the Operator's seat but on a redesigned bracket. Shortly after, they came up with a different rear PTO kit that mounted below the front of the Operator's seat and it was covered by a metal enclosure. The point is.... I don't know which style of PTO valve you installed on your tractor nor do I know what tractor that PTO kit was originally installed on. Did it come with steel lines or did you make up hoses to run from the pump outlet hose to the valve and then back to the travel/lift valve? You speak of using a short single wire hose. You do not need hoses with multiple braids. A single braid hose that is rated at a working pressure of 3000 PSI or more is quite adequate.

    For the record. I agree with how you plumbed the valve into the tractor. The valve ports are marked INLET and OUTLET so it is pretty hard to go wrong if you are paying attention.

    When the tractor's engine is NOT running, will the travel lever move freely from full reverse to full forward? If it will, then that would indicate that you do not have a mechanical issue with the valve or linkage.

    Clear up those questions and we will go from there.

    Tom

  5. #5
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    Ingersoll 4018

    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    hydriv,

    The Ingersoll 4018 is serial # 14140952 and has the 'old' style Case look meaning that the speed range selector is the pivoting swing lever just off to the left of the drivers seat.

    The next question may be harder to answer - the rear PTO and steel lines supposedly came from an older Case 444 (as did the 3-pt). I don't know for sure but it is the valve mounted on the bracket out the rear of the tractor - left side.

    Yes - this was a running and driving tractor prior to adding the hitch and rear pto and doing other much needed repairs - I did nothing with the valve or linkage for travel control - just disconnected the pump pressure line and re-routed it to the pto valve as previously stated.
    I used as much of the original steel lines as possible and have only a short (@6.0" long) piece of single wire hydraulic hose to connect the return oil from the rear pto valve to the travel control valve.

    Yes - the travel control level moves easily in both directions when the tractor is not running and moves easily in reverse when the tractor is running - but is very very difficult to move to the forward side when it is running.
    If it is forced hard toward the forward position - it will move but that is when the hydraulic hose blows....

    Question - does the rear pto valve have any pressure adjustment - when the line blows - the oil will shoot about 6-8 feet from under the tractor...??
    would you expect this?

    I was also thinking about re-connecting the pressure side of the pump back to the travel valve - thinking this would potentially isolate the issue to the rear pto / pto valve.... but have you seen or heard of these valves causing this type of issue.

    Already somewhat discoursed as the tractor was completely cleaned and de-greased and repainted and now it is no longer oil free - at least underneath..

    Thoughts?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    It would appear that your tractor is a 1990.

    I want you to understand that I believe what you are telling me. But I also want you to understand that it makes no sense.


    The J-26 three point hitch will fit onto any 4000 Series tractor and work perfectly. The same holds true for the older rear PTO kits. They are just a valve that redirects the flow from the pump to whatever attachment is connected to it. If you reused the steel lines, then it is pretty difficult to connect them incorrectly BUT.... even if you did get it wrong.... that still would not account for what you are telling me.

    The Colt/Case and Ingersoll Hydriv system is known as an open-center type. Oil leaves the reservoir and floods the inlet port of the pump where it is pushed to the outlet port. From there, the oil flows directly to ....and through the rear PTO valve before going to the IN port of the Travel/Lift valve and then to the oil cooler before returning to the reservoir for the next trip through the system. As long as the engine is running, the oil is constantly flowing as I described.

    But the PTO valve and the Travel/Lift valve are there to cause the oil to take a short detour so that work can be performed. If you move the lever on the right side of the steering wheel, the 3 point hitch will go up or down and so will the mid-lift that the deck/blade/blower is attached to.

    If the lever on the left of the steering wheel is moved, then oil will be diverted to the drive motor to make it move the tractor in forward or reverse. Both of those functions have their own separate relief valves built right into the casting, next to their respective spools that are controlled by the hand levers. Think of those relief valves as being the same as a circuit breaker in the electrical system of your home. If what you are doing causes the oil pressure to rise higher than the setting of the relief, then that relief will open up and let the oil bypass right back to the outlet of the valve. You will often hear a squealing sound when that happens.

    The rear PTO valves are built the same way. They also have a relief built into them that will open up whenever the oil pressure exceeds their setting. These reliefs are there to protect the pump and other parts of the hydraulic system. The relief in the PTO is usually set to blow off at about 2200 PSI. The relief in the travel valve will open at around 2100 PSI and the relief in the lift valve is set at a mere 575 PSI on the garden tractors. I tell you this so that you have a clear understanding as to how your hydraulic system works.

    When no work is being performed, the hydraulic oil freely flows through the system at less than 100 PSI because nothing is impeding it. Pressure begins to rise quickly whenever you move a lever and ask the oil to perform work. The harder the work, the higher the pressure. In other words, it takes more pressure to make your tractor move up a steep hill while pulling a garden cart filled with dirt than it does to pull that cart down your level paved driveway. Pressures in the system will rise and fall constantly in accordance with the difficulty of the work being performed.

    In order to isolate this problem, I think that you are going to have to disconnect the lines coming from the PTO valve and hook the pump output line directly to the travel/lift valve just like it was originally. The purpose of this test is to make sure that there is nothing wrong with the travel spool.... internally. If the tractor functions perfectly, then we are left with the PTO valve as being the problem.

    I have never heard of a PTO valve giving problems of any kind providing they were properly plumbed into the system. But even when the lines to the IN and OUT ports were reversed, the tractor still functioned perfectly normal. However, with the PTO lines reversed, the relief valve can no longer do its job of protecting the pump. If the rototiller is being used and it strike a big tree root that causes it to stop spinning, then the pressure of the pump will rise higher than what the pump housing can withstand and the housing will sometimes crack open or the front seal of the pump will blow out.

    In this instance, you are blowing a hydraulic hose but that hose is subjected to the same pressure no matter which way you move the Travel Lever. So it makes no sense to me that you report being able to back the tractor up with no problems but.... have that hose blow whenever you ask the tractor to move forward. If you are using hydraulic hose that has a WORKING PRESSURE rating of 3000 PSI or higher, then it should not blow open. The pump should fail long before the hose reaches the rupture point because hoses have a safety factor built into them that is much higher than the working pressure rating.

    To be honest here, I am grasping at straws with this question but..... did you thoroughly flush out the PTO valve and lines prior to installing that kit on your tractor?

  7. #7
    New Member
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    Jun 2015
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    Ingersoll 4018

    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    hydriv,

    Thanks for the response and suggestions.
    Sorry for the delay in responding - was on vacation for a week.

    Now - back to the tractor.
    I had a new hydraulic line made to go from the PTO return back to the travel valve.
    I took the hydraulic fittings off the travel valve and visually inspected - looking for debris or obvious signs that would cause the travel level to move so hard.
    I also looked at the ball joint for the forward direction of the level / valve spool.

    While not an expert - nothing jumped out at me as being a potential issue.

    I put the new hydraulic line on, filled the oil tank with oil and again started the tractor. Let the tractor run in neutral for 10-15 minutes.
    Again - I tried moving the travel control level in reverse - moves pretty easy and operates like it should.
    I then tried moving the travel control level in the forward position - again kind of difficult to move it out of the 'neutral' detent position but moves as easy as the reverse side through the remaining motion / movement.

    It did not have a hose issue this time around - not sure what to think.

    Could the setting of the ball joint (length of rod) change the geometry of the level and spool relationship.
    Getting the lever out of the detent can also be a little jerky...

    Thoughts?

  8. #8
    Silver Member
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    Default Re: Ingersoll 4018 & rear PTO issues

    I am wondering if the source of your problem is with the neutral safety switch. Is the resistance only noticeable when the engine is running and not there when the engine is shut off?

    The adjustment of the ball joint rod is there to allow you to fine tune the neutral position. When the Travel Lever is truly in the neutral position, as shown on the dashboard indicator, the tractor should not creep in either direction. If it does, then lengthening or shortening that ball joint rod is the way to cure that problem.

    Perhaps a new neutral safety switch is needed. Contact Bob Meyers at casegardentractorparts.com

    Bob is a little swamped at the moment and therefore slow to answer e-mails. Just hang in there and he will take care of you.

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