Chainsaw vs Outboard 2 Cycle Oil

[Workstead]

Thanks for the replies.

I'll check to see if the label says it's OK to use on air cooled engines. If it doesn't I willl probablly continue to let it sit on the shelf and wonder what the differences are that could make it damaging to use on an air cooled engine.

Clem

 

[4Kings]

The marine 2 stroke oil isn't designed to run at the high rpm's. Chainsaws and trimmers run about 10,000 rpms, what do outboards run at, maybe 5-6000 max, i dunno.

 

[jhwentworth]

Back when I always used straight non detergent SAE 30 in my old Johnson 25.
We'd burn as much as 25-40 gals every W/E. and 10-15 rest of the week.
Ran that motor 10 years and also sunk it maybe 10-15 times.

When I sold it (10 yrs) the compression was as good as when new!

What has changed? or is it just marketing.

What has changed is that newer 2-strokes are making a lot more power. Water cooled marine 2-strokes should use a BIAA or NMMA TC-W3 rated oil. Air-cooled 2-strokes (chainsaws, motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc.) should use an API TC rated oil. If you really want to use just one 2-stroke oil go with NMMA TC-W3 TM. The TM designation indicates that the oil is approved for both water-cooled and air-cooled engines. Typically, a water-cooled type oil will be a heavier oil with low detergents, and other additives to prevent rusting and provide anti-oxidant protection. The air-cooled oil will be a lighter oil with higher detergents. The API TC oil costs more to make.

I'd say that if you're running an old water-cooled outboard than the oil isn't that critical, but if it's a high-performance air-cooled 2-stroke, like a modern chainsaw, then the API-TC is a must. My Stihl Pro 361 chainsaw makes 4.4 hp and spins at 13,200 rpm; it needs a TC rated oil.

 

[PILOON]

What has changed is that newer 2-strokes are making a lot more power. Water cooled marine 2-strokes should use a BIAA or NMMA TC-W3 rated oil. Air-cooled 2-strokes (chainsaws, motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc.) should use an API TC rated oil. If you really want to use just one 2-stroke oil go with NMMA TC-W3 TM. The TM designation indicates that the oil is approved for both water-cooled and air-cooled engines. Typically, a water-cooled type oil will be a heavier oil with low detergents, and other additives to prevent rusting and provide anti-oxidant protection. The air-cooled oil will be a lighter oil with higher detergents. The API TC oil costs more to make.

I'd say that if you're running an old water-cooled outboard than the oil isn't that critical, but if it's a high-performance air-cooled 2-stroke, like a modern chainsaw, then the API-TC is a must. My Stihl Pro 361 chainsaw makes 4.4 hp and spins at 13,200 rpm; it needs a TC rated oil.

In fact I do now use the newer designated oils, if nothing else to be on the safe side.
Also since the mixes are much tighter (leaner) I appreciate the need for higher quality.
But still my chainsaw seems not to be fussy as long as it is quality 2-stroke oil.

Biggest hassle to me is liters vs ounce vs gal vs ML etc etc. and then is that can/tank in US gal/qt or is it Cdn gal/qt?

Yes, a member did fwd a copy of a great conversion chart that sure helps. (thanks)

 

[Egon]

Get the containers marked in liters. Makes for easy figuring.

 

[PILOON]

Get the containers marked in liters. Makes for easy figuring.

In fact I have some but with age the 'sight guage area' yellows so that levels tend to be kinda difficult to sight accurately.
Fact is I should make a dip stick and that would solve a lot of hassles.

 

[DieselPower]

Ok, we want a little more info about what the real difference is between a TC and a TCW 2 stroke oil. Here goes. For starters the W in TCW is for "water cooled". TC, or two stroke oil meant for air cooled engines, use large amounts of ash forming metallic additives while TC-W3 does not. These metallic additives help lubricate the engine when operating at extremely high temperatures or when starved for lubrication.

Truth of the matter is that TC oil is needed for free revving engines while the metallic ash causes nothing but problems in constant load engines like outboards because it leaves deposits. Free revving engines need protection when running lean, and will burn off the deposits TC oils leave during these lean runs. As I already mentioned there are oils on the market that are rated for both air cooled and water cooled 2 stroke engines. They tend to be more expensive because they use a more expensive additive package which can still protect a air cooled engine while not forming deposits in a water cooled engine.

 

[Egon]

That's nice information to know Dieselpower. Thanks

[/the 'sight guage area' yellows QUOTE]

It is quite obvious you do much more work than I Pillion as your containers get to sit outside if they are yellowing!

 

[JJZ 109]

Thanks for the replies.

I'll check to see if the label says it's OK to use on air cooled engines. If it doesn't I willl probablly continue to let it sit on the shelf and wonder what the differences are that could make it damaging to use on an air cooled engine.

Clem

Heck, in a worst case scenario you could add some STP and use it for bar & chain oil instead of having it on a shelf indefinitely!

 

[Marlowe]

I've been in the boating industry for over thirty years now. It doesn't make me an expert on two stroke oil but I have learned a few things in those years. Any oil is better than no oil, but the right oil works better than just any oil. Through the years engineers have learned what helps and what doesn't help so much. An air cooled engine runs at different temperatures than a water cooled one, that's why they throw that W in the TCW designation. W for water cooled combustion chamber temperatures. The same oil in an air cooled engine is better than nothing but it breaks down at the higher temperatures resulting in accelerated wear. Even in the two stroke outboards today we have oil specifically formulated for the application, such as oil for injected engines as compared to oil for carbureted engines. Use the wrong stuff and I can vouch for the fact that it shortens the life of the engine sometimes resulting in catastrophic failure. It's not just marketing hype. Compared to the engine, oil is fairly cheap. I'd recommend getting the right stuff.