Have a Partner 500 that will not start

[Jeff Lary]

I have been putting together old junked out partners the last couple of days ,stuff that I have bought not running for 1 reason or another.The saw I am stumped about is a 500 I bought it for $20.00 all apart in a bag.The guy said his saw shop told him it just was not worth fixing ?so. I thought 20 bucks was cheep enough fot the parts so i bought it.I got looking at it today and decided to see if I could see what was wrong with it. It was really packed with oily saw dust everywhere. So I took the Flywheel off the base cleaned behind it and around the coil ,it was so packed full it was a wonder the coil could send electricity between it and the wheel.I put the jug and Piston back on,... the base gasket was a little rough but I cleaned it as best as it could be and put her together. I put the carb back on after I blew it out a little but i have to say that was the cleanest carb inside I have ever seen. Hooked up a spark plug and pulled it over and viola Bright Blue spark. I thought this will run I'll just squirt a little gas in the plug and carb. Well I did that and all it did was put put put but it would not run. I gave it some thought and figured that the base might be flooded so I pulled the plug and pulled her over 50 or so times. Still nothing, so I figured the base gasket might be the trouble but I could not figure out why the gas in the cylinder would not fire? So I pulled the jug and Piston changed them out and put some permatex on top of the old gasket and put her back together. Tried just starting as normal and no go so I put some gas in the cylinder and it started for maybe 5 sec. so I repeted it with a little more gas and this time I figured if it statred I would use my thumb to choke it to keep it running.Well it started and when I tried to put my thumb over the carb it accidently touched the plug wire and WOW that baby has some serious electricity ,man numbed my arm for 5 min. but putting more gas in the carb and cylinder again it still will not even run 5 sec again so I am lost dont know what to do next any suggestions?

 

[Jeff Lary]

Well I am about ready to Give up.I came home today and went to the saw.First I brought the piston to TDC and looked at where the Flywheel magnets were in relation to the Coil poles ,..fine.But to be sure I removed the wheel to check the key ,...yup fine as well.Then on to the Coil I changed it out with one I had after finding out I could not get a new plug wire to screw on to that one ,just would not start on.So I changed the coil and ,...no fire reset the pole gap,... no fire.Turns out that with this saw having that small black ignition module it just would not accept the coils I had at least thats what I think.So I Put the orig Coil back in and checked the fire,... it is as Bright Blue as you have ever seen. So Good fire Next stop the Carb .I did not have a kit so I took it all apart Pump diaphram needle valve Hi/Lo jet screws top section as well then blew it all out w/ comp air.Put her all together with a new gasket I made from gasket material .Primed the cylinder and she started and run for 10 sec primed again same thing and over and over but if you touched the throttle it would immeadiately stall.Then it would not start at all. So then I rememberd a 500 carb that came on a saw i just bought that a tree fell on the saw so i put that running carb on the saw ,It will run 2 sec every time you pull it over but unless you remove the muffler it will not run.If you remove the muffler it will run but if you touch the throttle it dies. So I called a farm and garden sales place I have called before to get this certin persons advice.Oh one more thing I did take off the muffler and it would run then but still if you touched the throttle it would die and while it ran it was fogging the **** out of my right hand with fuel mist from the carb.Well I explained all this to him and he said it sounded flooded to him. I told him it would run every time I pulled it over for about (5,... put put put put's) when I told him about the muffler he said that when an engine is flooded that will help let the excess fuel escape but it could also mean that the piston or cylinder or both could be bad and that is where all the atomized gas form the carb was comming from .It was maybe leeking by the piston and being forced out the carb as a mist.So that's where I am now? What do you all think?

 

[arrow]

Well I am about ready to Give up.I came home today and went to the saw.First I brought the piston to TDC and looked at where the Flywheel magnets were in relation to the Coil poles ,..fine.But to be sure I removed the wheel to check the key ,...yup fine as well.Then on to the Coil I changed it out with one I had after finding out I could not get a new plug wire to screw on to that one ,just would not start on.So I changed the coil and ,...no fire reset the pole gap,... no fire.Turns out that with this saw having that small black ignition module it just would not accept the coils I had at least thats what I think.So I Put the orig Coil back in and checked the fire,... it is as Bright Blue as you have ever seen. So Good fire Next stop the Carb .I did not have a kit so I took it all apart Pump diaphram needle valve Hi/Lo jet screws top section as well then blew it all out w/ comp air.Put her all together with a new gasket I made from gasket material .Primed the cylinder and she started and run for 10 sec primed again same thing and over and over but if you touched the throttle it would immeadiately stall.Then it would not start at all. So then I rememberd a 500 carb that came on a saw i just bought that a tree fell on the saw so i put that running carb on the saw ,It will run 2 sec every time you pull it over but unless you remove the muffler it will not run.If you remove the muffler it will run but if you touch the throttle it dies. So I called a farm and garden sales place I have called before to get this certin persons advice.Oh one more thing I did take off the muffler and it would run then but still if you touched the throttle it would die and while it ran it was fogging the **** out of my right hand with fuel mist from the carb.Well I explained all this to him and he said it sounded flooded to him. I told him it would run every time I pulled it over for about (5,... put put put put's) when I told him about the muffler he said that when an engine is flooded that will help let the excess fuel escape but it could also mean that the piston or cylinder or both could be bad and that is where all the atomized gas form the carb was comming from .It was maybe leeking by the piston and being forced out the carb as a mist.So that's where I am now? What do you all think?

A compression check would tell you something. A compression of 70 would cause what you are experiencing.

 

[Jeff Lary]

A compression check would tell you something. A compression of 70 would cause what you are experiencing.

yea I am going to try to get that checked today

 

[Jeff Lary]

To answer the previous post yes The piston pin and ring are in the correct position and the gas line is new.As everyone may have read Last night or this am ,I forgert everything is a kind of partner yellow haze to me. I preformed the drop test and the saw decended to the end of the recoil rope.So based on everything I knew and had heard in my life concerning compression It appeared that this 500 had very little.
I took the saw to a very trusted shop this morning and spoke to the older gentman who has helped me in the past with other saw and generator problems.His eyes really lit up when he saw my saw, he said so you are jeff w/the 500 He told me these were and are his all time favorite saw. I said yep and i think i have no compression can you test it.So about 15 min later ,(I figured he was messing with it some) he came back and said you wont believe it but this saw has 150# It is fine. He said if I had not had primed the cylinder so many times and thus washed the walls clean it would have been more.He said I tried a shot of either and it still wouldnt start.I think though that I know what the matter is.My saw has a small black box infront and to the right of the carb, and that he said is causing all the trouble I think?He said this box also controls the timing and he belives the timming is off. So I told him I have already tried a diffrent coil because this one is bleeding elec through the plug wire.But when I tried it i had no fire at all so I had to put the old coil back on for now.He told me to replace the coil and not connect the small black wire that goes from the coil to the small black box.If the saw ran the just run the wire to the switch as usuall. So i came home all excited and you can guess the result still no go.Then I said well I will remove the jug again and remove the permatex like someone suggested earlier and check to see if the impluse nipple was plugged with permatex.So I did that and no It was not plugged but I had more things in mind as well so I cleaned off the permatex and the paper gasket,got a new gasket and some threebond 1194.I put a little on the base set the gasket and checked the pin on the piston to be sure the ring was in the correct position it was.I put the jug back on and moved to carburation.I started with the rubber boot and the inpluse nipple.I put a little three bond on the boot and set it on the jug then some on the outside of the tiny nipple rubber seal and slid that into position.Then 1194 on the back of the carb where it goes onto the rubber boot and slid the carb on it and into the impluse nipple. Now the next thing was to change out the carb with a freshly cleaned one and put her all back together.And guess what I still does not run If youprime the carb it will run a little but not much and not good I have screwed the low speed jet about 3 miles i think in and out and every fraction from 1/4 turn to 3 turns and no go. If you prime it and pull it about 30 times it will run for 7 or 8 sec, but if you touch the throttle she dies. I now think that maybe it may be some sort of carb issue but these two carbs came from running saws. So my next step is to take it to the shop i guess I give up i have done evry thing to every system that I know how to do.

The compression is 150#.....The spark is bright blue but i have been using the same plug all this time maybe I should try a new one?....The carbs came from running saws?...The flywheel is in the correct position the key is in place.....It has all new gas and vent lines....The coil has been changed numerous times...when primed it will sometims run and sometimes it will not I think it getts flooded i prime with about 2 tbl spoons every time.

 

[arrow]

The gas lines and tank filter have been changed? and or nothing is crimped?

 

[Jeff Lary]

yes I am pretty sure it is either an impulse line issue or a mismatched piston/cylinder got to tear it down again tomorrow i guess

 

[arrow]

Everything you state smacks of some type of air leak before the carb. Timing seldom goes off on a chainsaw except for those guys who like to ram the cutters into the wood which could of very well been done on your saw not knowing its history.Coil is good, gas lines flow, gaskets are good, carb diaphragms have been changed out, spark is good, compression is good, all gaps have been calibrated but it sounds like you are getting no gas or exhaust is plugged but that could not be because you removed the muffler. Saw doesn't run with no air filter either? These Partners (black cased saws )had what was called a "condensator" to relieve heat build up but I do not think your problem lies there.
Unless there is some little other trick to these saws I am unaware of, I'm at the same cross roads as you. Sorry

 

[Jeff Lary]

I have been on the arborist site getting some help as well really great bunch of guys there as well,just mor saw people.They wanted me to tell them how I finally got the saw running so I posted this over there last evening ,now i will cut and paste it to here for those of you who were also offering advice thanks for all the help she runs fine.To see the whole thread go to Arboristsite find chainsaws look for my partner 500 will not start by Jeff Lary.
I came home and took the saw apart again the piston was windowless and the jug was closed port .Therre was a matter chance that I put the wrong jug with the wrong piston and that is what I wanted to know.I based my opinion on what saw used open port and what used closed from a man I just bought a junked 5000 from it was all apart in the bed of this truck so when he told me that the open port jug he gave me went with the 5000 i just bought I did not really question it.I said so open is 5000 and closed is 500 ? he said yup but all the pistons are the same.So armed with this knowledge I put the only good looking piston i had in this closed port cylinder.I took the carb off and when i did the gas line the gas fountained up from it.I thought that was odd becaues there should have been no pressure in the base because I had not pulled the saw over for about 20 hours? In my opinion the saw was always flooded so i took the vent filter/canister out of the vent line and you could hear a pffffsssstttt as the pressure escaped.I figured the vent was keeping pressuer against the diaphram and keeping the saw flooded? But I was this far so I took off the jug and piston and tore off the base gasket.I called my saw shop to order a base gasket and oh yea got a kid on the phone never heard of a base gasket the man I wanted to speak to was on the rd.Now I was sick of the thought of a wait for him to call so I made my own from .20 felpro gasket material and put her on.Now I was going to wait to get my photos posted and ask if the closed port cylinder should be swaped out for an Open port one i had.I am impaitent so I decided to go ahead and change the jug as that was the only thing I could change as i only have the piston that was in the saw at this time. I put the carb back on tuned it in and put in a new plug as per quite a few requests.By the way the Napa store wher i got the plug had never heard of a Partner saw. I changed the vent plug to one I had and pulled the coard.Three pulls and she sat Idling on the floor. In my opinion the piston needed a diffrent jug and the vent filter was NOT working as it kept constant pressure in the carb.
I want to thank everyone for all the advice and the picture from "WOODPLAYER" that allowed me to see what the base gasket was supposed to look like in relation to the Impluse nipple. THANK YOU ALL thanks for the support.I really wanted to try one more time before i got any advice I wanted to do it on my own as much as I could," turns out I just may be cuts out for this after all !"Excues any typos as I am about sick of typing!~!!