More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284

   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284 #1  

SPIKER

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
4,495
Location
Ohio, Jeromesville, Ashland County
Tractor
Jinma 284
Hi All:

I hadn't broken my tractor in a while so I decided to mix up a few yards of concrete 2 weeks back, (actually 10 94lb bags worth) so probably only about 2 yards worth but seems like more ;)

anyhow tractor ran well & I left it running all day idling most time driving between piles of stone & sand & water/crete. all was well untill quiting time, I had front end loader up about 5' and shut it down, tired not thinking, so dropped the loader and pushed out a bunch of oil with out seeing it started up next day to low level and sucked air. it boiled a bunch out then...
anyhow I decided to fix it by pulling vent & re-filling & letting foam settle out a day or so, worked until I ran it at high PTO rpm did a little foam up and boil over.

Now I figure I made a big enough mess so my brother brought down his pressure washer and gave the tractor & fel & mixer all a good once over.

OK that made it worse. figured I had a loose fitting someplace proceeded to pull seat off and pull strainer which was really dirty anyhow & needed cleaned. since it foamed up & boiled out a bunch I changed about 1/2 the fluid just to get foam out. cleaned filter by cutting top out of an empty brake fluid quart can/plastic jug/bottle. filled it with Kerosene & while still attached to 3 bolt flange gave it a good shaking/stirring in there which took out a BUNCH of metal rubber and misc goo which appeared to be Teflon tape.

that done I figured it would work, put back together & still boiled at rpm ??

ok must be pump flange or small pin hole wore into suction line? so pulled it all back apart from pump replaced O-Ring under there which looked OK, (figured must have been high pressure cleaning maybe tore it...?? )

NOPE wasn't bad looked good and felt good and was only a bit stiff. ok maybe it was it put it back together for 3rd time & still boiled over...

ok running out of ideas. took every thing back apart. looking for cracks miss alignments ect. pulled out strainer again and re-cleaned it. Started cleaning & looking for possibly a pressure wash cut into the 3 bolt casting? then I saw my mistake

The suction dip tube was loose ! I just missed it the first day! argh. lots of aggravation cause I was in a hurry!... OH well I am 98% sure it was the problem though it is still apart but will be back together for the 4th time in AM. wish me luck! I think it may been the mixer shaking the tractor all over as it was a good 1/2 bag mixer on back of my 284. when it was sticky stuff it would fall from top of drum to bottom causing tractor to JERK 6" or so about.

anyhow just wanted to let others know what I did looking for foaming issues in the hyd system of a JINMA 284

I still have it apart and will try & find the camera & shot a few pics in AM prior to assembly.

Mark M
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284 #2  
Mark,
I hope that is the problem and will cure the boil over.
If not, you what they say....5th time is a charm.:)
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Well this is a quick response, while I was pretty sure it would fix it it did not, so further inspections and parts repair are required.

I disassembled HYD pump and found that the end plates had dirt/contaminates right up to the o-rings and inner W-rings were in rather bad shape. the shaft end seal appeared to be Ok though. so MAYBE it was these, I did not have a pump kit so all I could do was grease up the existing used seals and re-assemble the pump & put it back on. I used some good grease on the seals making sure to not use so much that the grease prevented the hyd fluid from getting around all of the lube holes. started it up and tried it out. I figured I had a 20% chance that it would work for a while and 50% chance that it would leak fluid out every where and only about a 2% chance that it would fix the problem for a long while. well with nothing to loose I tried it and it seemed to stop for a few min at idle but as soon as RPM came up so did the foam... :( I did remember the camera and took pics of most every thing but the foam out as I'm sure it is something no one wants to EVER see...

I called and talked to Jerry down at affordable they have the parts but I was on the road and didn't get a chance to call back & buy what I think I might need and was very rushed for time... I'll get more info and get parts more than likely very soon... Anyhow got to get my self to bed tonight as work in AM at the farm pulling pump back apart to get some generic o-rings in there to see if they help it then off to work 12 hrs at the plant all night long this weekend. :(

MarkM
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284
  • Thread Starter
#4  
hi all:

back and still working on this issue.

I put in NEW o-ring seals into the pump and tried it again, no luck still foaming, SO I went ahead bought a rebuilt kit and a NEW pump and NEW pump drive gear from affordable in TX Jerry has been great so far and this is 2nd time I've bought items from them and had great luck.

anyhow now I've re-built the pump with the kit supplied and every thing seemed to fit OK but when tightening the pump up it locks up and won't let the drive gear turn. It locks up tight! It will turn easily if the bolts are left loose which is puzzling as there are no SEAL in the area that would prevent the pump shaft/gearing from turning? The alignment pins are in and OK the end seal/shaft seal worked great and was pushed in using vice & 23mm socket and is free / loose easy to turn when the end plates are left loose.

I have new pump and new drive gear to go in if need be but was hoping to keep it as a spare... anyhow it looks like I'm going to have to put those in has anyone replaced the drive shaft (keyed shaft)? I asked Jerry and forgot what he said. i'm not sure if I have to pull the front of the engine apart or just the large bolt that seems to go into the center of the drive shaft or do I have to pull the 10+ bolts over the front cover that has cam & misc drive parts in there??

OK I'll post back but want to put same info on NYCTOA site as I need a good answer by tomorrow afternoon.

Mark M
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284 #5  
According to WHOIS, as of March 1, 2007, NYCTOA is no more.
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284 #7  
My bad. NYCTOA is gone, not NYCTO.

Thanks for clarifying.
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284
  • Thread Starter
#8  
hi all still having problems here

I got NEW KIT from Tommy/Jerry at affordable, got every thing I should need. BUT when assembling the old pump/new kit the pump binds up and won't turn at all. The pump was assembled using good clean oil with the new kit. the kit o-rings have small notches and only fit one way as they are tapered slightly with smaller side going into groves. the outer round o-rings (not actually round but more of a square with small teeth on them) fit rather tight had to stretch them slightly to get them into groves needed 4th hand for this. the W rings fit OK but the ends have small T on the ends that fit to the outer pump shell to inner rotating shaft carriage? this was / is where I think I'm having problems as these seals also barely fit into the groves on my pump. I think they may be forcing the inner carriage assy into a slight twist or bind when the end plates squeeze them down. it is the only place that any misalignment could cause binding in my mind. the pump will rotate freely with the ends installed very lose, and as I tighten them the bind gets worse until the pump won't turn... I am at a loss on this one any thoughts from everyone out here?


Another problem maybe you can help with since the old pump is not working I'm going to put in the NEW pump I bought and NEW pump drive shaft BUT I need to know how much to disassemble the front of the engine to get old pump shaft out and new one in. .

the pump drive shaft the one in the engine I was replacing it as the one i have has small wear where old pump was dragging some time? I got 2 new ones one long & one sort from Jerry but I forgot if he said I had to pull ALL of the bolts that hold the front cover on as well as the SINGLE LARGE bolt that set on the opposite face from the pump. this is the cover that covers all the drive gears for cam, injector & hyd pump I think. I didn't know if the shaft comes out the FRONT or through the hyd pump install hole?

thanks mark
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284
  • Thread Starter
#9  
hi guys:

so far the old pump still locks up but with further inspection I can see why. what is happeneing is the new W rings are much fatter than the old ones were I ASSUMED that it was just fact old ones were compressed. but it appears that the milling on my pump bearing parts was not as deep as the new ones must be as there is almost 1/8" of the W rings sticking out. what effect this has on the pump is to compress the W rings actually pushes the two (2 ) bearing halves in towards each and the pump gears are there and the sides actually rub metal to metal on the gear teeth edge surface. normally this is all in good oil bath and makes little or no contact under normal pump pressure. BUT with the FAT o/W rings these two parts are squeezing the pump drive gears so hard that the pump won't budge and has galled the aluminum slightly (I fixed this using granite surface block and 320 sand paper to flatten & polish the galled surfaces back to good smooth surface.) also was able to use high speed scotch brite pad to clean up the gear teeth matting flange. every thing is back to spinning smooth & free when un-compressed. but under compression I get same problem, too fat of w-rings. I'm going to try the old ones back in there later as for now I assembled the pump using all 4 bolt holes under good tight condition for a few days to see if the pump will loosen up a bit ??

so far no one has stepped up to say yes or no, on having to pull the front cover off engine to change out the pump drive shaft/gear... any one do this yet?

thanks mark
 
   / More Foaming Hydraulic issues. JM 284 #10  
Mark,
I have not done it in a long time, but I believe you can get the drive gear/shaft out of the engine from the pump side, remove the pump, the plate and then the drive.

If it makes you feel any better, we have had very limited success with pump rebuilds. I usually recommend a new pump.

As for the foaming, we had one one time that the elbow/flange feeding the pump had a porous casting. of course it was a new tractor, but that drove us nuts for a day and a half. since your tractor has worked, that is not likely in your case.

Chip
 
 
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