Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle

   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle #1  

Reaney in NH

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
20
Location
Newport, NH
Tractor
John Deere 420 Backhoe
2005 Jinma 284... new to me. I have no service history. 136 hours.

Idle is eratic... sometimes idles at around 1400 rpms steady... other times it surges from around 600 up to 1400 and back to 600 and sometimes will stall. Adjusting the Idle screw does nothing except make it stall more often.

I really need help on this.
Thank you
Reaney in NH
 
   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle #2  
Unlike more modern diesel engines, this injection pump does NOT share lubricating oil with the engine. Perhaps it's own oil supply is low.

//greg//
 
   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle #3  
Its a fuel supply problem. Naturally checking hoses clamps and fittings is a place to start. The filter and or prefilter (a small screen in the supply line to the injector pump, a part of the mechanical pump assembly).
Does it have those nice braided hoses? IF yes then you have an air leak. I have replaced half of mine. Try to twist on em or move em sometimes you cant tell. Save the banjo fitting and remove the braided hose replace with parts store fuel line and clamps.
Anything further would be rare.
Good luck
 
   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle
  • Thread Starter
#4  
greg_g said:
Unlike more modern diesel engines, this injection pump does NOT share lubricating oil with the engine. Perhaps it's own oil supply is low.

//greg//

It was low on oil... I topped it off... No Change on the surging eratic Idle.
Thanks for the tip tho.
Reaney
 
   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle
  • Thread Starter
#5  
rdbigfarmboy said:
Its a fuel supply problem. Naturally checking hoses clamps and fittings is a place to start. The filter and or prefilter (a small screen in the supply line to the injector pump, a part of the mechanical pump assembly).
Does it have those nice braided hoses? IF yes then you have an air leak. I have replaced half of mine. Try to twist on em or move em sometimes you cant tell. Save the banjo fitting and remove the braided hose replace with parts store fuel line and clamps.
Anything further would be rare.
Good luck

Thats some great info... I will look into the things you mention. I should note... this is only a problem at idle... it runs great at higher throttle settings.
Thank you
Reaney
 
   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle #6  
I think that if it was a fuel supply issue, it would get worse at higher throttle settings due to greater fuel demand. Air in the line would cause injectors to missfire or deliver less fuel resulting in rough idle or cylinders cutting in and out.

Unfortunatly it does sound like a governor/injector pump issue to me. The hand control you use is not really a throttle, but a speed selector. The actual throttle/rack control is moved by a centrifugal governor inside the injector pump. The spinning governor wants to close the throttle. By advancing the control lever, you are adding spring pressure to oppose the governor and open the throttle. As RPM increases, the spinning governor gains energy to fight against the spring and close the throttle again. For a given hand lever position, there is an RPM where the governor centrifugal weight is equal to the spring weight you are applying with the lever. The Jinma 200 series appears to use spinning ball bearings as the flyweights of the centrifugal governor. These press outward and force a cone shaped cup with greater and greater force as the RPM increases. Here is a page with pictures(about 2/3 down the page) of that portion disassembled courtesy of Tractor Outlet. Service Bulletin from Tractor Outlet Jinma Tractors Loaders Backhoes

At idle, the spring force applied is light. Something such as a broken spring or spring holder could be randomizing this applied force or causing it to internally jam so the spring force cannot return to the proper low level. It could also be something with the sliding cup assembly not allowing the governor weights to come out all the way and set a 900 RPM low speed selection(idle). Lack of oil some time in it's past and excessive wear, dirt in the mechanism or poorly machined part to begin with could be interfering with this process at low RPM. Since the forces involved(spring and centrifugal) are less at low RPM, it takes less to interfere with them.
 
   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle
  • Thread Starter
#7  
RonMar said:
I think that if it was a fuel supply issue, it would get worse at higher throttle settings due to greater fuel demand. Air in the line would cause injectors to missfire or deliver less fuel resulting in rough idle or cylinders cutting in and out.

Unfortunatly it does sound like a governor/injector pump issue to me. The hand control you use is not really a throttle, but a speed selector. The actual throttle/rack control is moved by a centrifugal governor inside the injector pump. The spinning governor wants to close the throttle. By advancing the control lever, you are adding spring pressure to oppose the governor and open the throttle. As RPM increases, the spinning governor gains energy to fight against the spring and close the throttle again. For a given hand lever position, there is an RPM where the governor centrifugal weight is equal to the spring weight you are applying with the lever. The Jinma 200 series appears to use spinning ball bearings as the flyweights of the centrifugal governor. These press outward and force a cone shaped cup with greater and greater force as the RPM increases. Here is a page with pictures(about 2/3 down the page) of that portion disassembled courtesy of Tractor Outlet. Service Bulletin from Tractor Outlet Jinma Tractors Loaders Backhoes

At idle, the spring force applied is light. Something such as a broken spring or spring holder could be randomizing this applied force or causing it to internally jam so the spring force cannot return to the proper low level. It could also be something with the sliding cup assembly not allowing the governor weights to come out all the way and set a 900 RPM low speed selection(idle). Lack of oil some time in it's past and excessive wear, dirt in the mechanism or poorly machined part to begin with could be interfering with this process at low RPM. Since the forces involved(spring and centrifugal) are less at low RPM, it takes less to interfere with them.

Thanks for that great explaination. I'm going to tear down the governor next week and see whats up. Worse case is I order a new pump. My "great deal" is evaporating fast. LOL
It looks to me like I can access the governor without removeing the entire pump. so it shouldn't be to bad.
Thanks for the help.
Reaney
 
   / Idle Surge... High Idle... Eratic Idle #8  
The speed governor is fairly simple. It could have a bad bearing.
Im still with it being a fuel supply problem. The mechanical pump is fairly week and is part of that screen mechanism. Is there any wet or thick dust around the injector pump, supply lines, or mechanical supply pump. at all?
Good luck
 
 
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