Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes

   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #1  

YukonKing

Bronze Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
94
Location
Whitehorse Yukon Canada
Tractor
2021 L2501 FEL
Hi all,

Im having a few problems with my 3 point. How do you engage the hydraulics for the 3 point? Also what are the two ( left and right ) quick connects at the back near the 3 point? The reason I ask is because I didn't get my pump with my Jinma backhoe?

Thanks
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #2  
YukonKing said:
Hi all,

Im having a few problems with my 3 point. How do you engage the hydraulics for the 3 point? Also what are the two ( left and right ) quick connects at the back near the 3 point? The reason I ask is because I didn't get my pump with my Jinma backhoe?

Thanks

The 3PH hydraulics should have come already plumbed and ready to go. You should have a control that is marked "up-down" (best I recall without running out to the shop to look). That one makes the 3PH raise and lower. There are two handles both marked "DIE- EN" that engage the PTO and the differential lock. You'll have to trial and error to separate them. One more control back there is the shift from 540 rpm to 1000 rpm, the speed of the PTO output shaft.

The two quick connect supplied hoses are outlets to connect your choice of hydraulic operated tools. I'd imagine, but don't know, that a backhoe could be powered there. You should find two male connectors loose in your toolbox that are for connection to the tractor outlets already mentioned.

Enjoy! I received a 254 on Friday last. It is assembled and I'm figuring this stuff out along with you. :)
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #3  
Yukonking- my backhoe came with the pump (that attachs to the pto) haven't had time to install my hoe yet. I think the aux hyd supply maynot have enough power/flow to power the tractor and the backhoe. I remember reading about someone upgrading to a Prince pump and had much better performance from their backhoe- Just a thought if you have to "buy" a pump:( Maybe the factory will send You one. . May have to wait for shipment. Good Luck Ed
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #4  
As Hill described, there should be a lever beside the right side of the seat for raise, hold and lowering the 3PH. If yours is like mine, there is a black plastic knob in front of the seat. That is the speed regulating valve to the 3PH cylinder. On mine, this valve does double duty. If closed partially, it controls the lowering speed of the 3PH when a heavy impliment is attached. If it is closed down all the way, your 3PH will not move(up or down). When closed all the way this blocks the fluid from the 3PH lift cylinder completely and sends it all to the right rear quick connect fitting. If your 3PH is not working, make sure this valve is open/fully counterclockwise.

The two ports you mentioned are Jinma's version of rear remotes. The one on the right side of the tractor, if you follow it's pipe back, connects to the bottom of the 3PH control valve block. That is the supply line. That pipe/fitting is in parallel with the 3PH lift cylinder but it taps into the circuit before the speed reg valve. It was, I think originally intended to be used with a single acting dump bed trailer. If you screw down that speed reg valve all the way, all the 3PH fluid (entire system flow) goes to that rear QC when you lift the 3PH raise control. That is how you will get flow to your backhoe, so the 3PH control will have to be in the raise position and the speed reg valve fully closed to work the hoe. The port on the left side of the tractor should be a return and plummed back to the left side of the reservoir.

Another thing that will keep your 3PH from working is if you hook up your backhoe to those rear QC ports. Since the backhoe is open centered, if connected, when you try and raise the 3PH, the fluid will just flow thru the hoe instead of building pressure and lifting the 3PH.

So to summarize:
To use the 3PH, right rear QC will have to be disconnected from HOE or any other aux hydrulic equipment, and speed reg valve opened.
To use Hoe, speed reg valve closed, both rear QC's conected and 3PH lift control in the raise position to provide hyd flow to backhoe. If you forget to close the speed reg valve, as soon as the hoe comes under load, the 3PH will start to raise.

I timed my loader lift and based on the cylinder volumes on my loader, I got a little over 5GPM of flow on my pump at around 2000 engine RPM. They say that these hoes will run adequately on 4GPM, but I don't have much backhoe experience and have never tried it, so I am withholding judgment till I get mine. I will be interested in hearing how well yours works on the main system pump.

Here is a diagram of the 200 series hydraulics as I understand them. I drew in the aux and return QC fittings that yours has. Mine only had the supply port when I got it and I added the return myself. I would also highly reccomend you plumb in a pressure gage. My rear safety on the 3PH control valve was set too tight and would not relieve till 3000+ PSI. You want to make sure all the safeties are working correctly to prevent damage to the pump.
 

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   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #5  
Thanks for the nice diagram, Ron. It helps make sense of the tractor.

I magnified your image to 300% and rotated it 90 degrees using the 'image' tools in paint and got a full page print that's very clear.
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thanks a lot guys, today i'm going to get into the backhoe a liitle further. All the diagrams and info help. I'll just have to try the 3 point again. All is hooked up just not lifting the 3pt.

thanks
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #7  
One thing I forgot to mention about the speed reg valve is that it is basically an adjustable check valve. It has a loosley coupled tapered tip that sets down in a cone shaped pocket. The tip is held to the knob with a pin in a slot to allow the tip to move up and down a little. The fluid to the cylinder comes up from the bottom and flows around this tip to get to the cylinder inlet. This inflow will push the tip up to allow full flow to the cylinder. With no flow the tip settles down into the cup and restricts flow out of the cylinder so you can set up the same 3PH raise and lowering speed regardless of impliment weight.

If you screw it down too far, but not all the way, it will still allow fluid to go to the 3PH and lift the impliment. But like a check valve, fluid will not be able to come back from the 3PH when you try and lower it. With an impliment on the 3PH, you will also not be able to unscrew the speed regulating valve because of the hydraulic pressure on top of the tapered valve seat caused by the weight of the impliment. This pressure keeps the tip from rotating. I have done this a few times and you have to physically lift the weight off the 3PH to relieve the pressure on the speed reg valve. I have used a floor jack with the scraper and have backed the brushhog up onto a bank to relieve the pressure on the hitch. As soon as the weight is off, the valve rotates easilly.

There is a small standard blade locking screw on the valve body down in front of the speed regulating valve. This keeps you from unscrewing the valve too far with the engine and hydraulic pump running(messy). If you remove this screw, you can unscrew the speed reg valve all the way out and you will see what I mean. this is a good thing to do when new anyway to make sure the fine threads and "O" ring seal are clean and well lubricated.
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes
  • Thread Starter
#8  
So my three point is working now. I was having problems with the priority valve on the right side of the engine, first in line with the pressure output of the pump. Now I have the loader in line before the priority valve and all is working fine. However sometimes the 3 point does have hickups. Im thinking that I have air in the system somewere. I did some high RPM loader work and It really seemed to clear things up.

So next question, I don't have a pump for my backhoe, but I do have two rear remotes one is pressure and one is return. What will happen if I connect the backhoe as is. With the reservoir on the backhoe, will the tractor actually suck from the BH reservoir or will it just overfill eventually? The reason I ask is because I don't want to have to take the reservoir out of the loop because I do intend to get the proper pump.

Thanks a bunch guys I'm slowly learning to use this thing. Is there suction on the return side?

thanks
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #9  
The loader is usually connected in line before the steering diverter valve(located by your right foot when seated). That is where the quick connects from the factory should have been installed in the line comming right out of the pump.

As for the backhoe, there is no suction on the tractor return line. You will have to bypass the reservoir on the BH to use the tractors fluid supply. From pics I have seen, that reservoir is vented and placed lower than the tractor reservoir, so there is no way to get fluid from it back into the tractors system. It will overflow or the tractor will run out of fluid filling it. You can probably leave the reservoir physically attached, but run the supply and return lines from the tractors rear QC's directly to/from the hoe control valve. You should have a line loose runing to the hoe control valve. That is probably the inlet line, that connects to the add on pump. This line will need to go to the rear remote on the right side of the tractor(behind 3PH control valve). The other line comming out of the hoe valve is probably connected to the BH reservoir. That is the return line comming from the valve. That line will need to be disconnected from the reservoir and connected to the left hand QC on the back of the tractor(return to tractor reservoir). There will be another line comming from the bottom of the reservoir that is the supply line for the external pump. You will probably want to disconnect that line and keep it safe untill you get a external pump. And of course cap the tank fitings to keep it clean untill you can make use of it.

Like I said, I am curious how well your hoe runs on the tractor hydraulic system.

Good luck
 
   / Help! 3 point, loader, backhoes #10  
I have a Branson 3510. I bought a Jinma YW-6 Hoe and modified the sub frame to fit my tractor. I am running the Hoe off of the tractor Hydraulics. I only need 1400 RPM for it to work well. I took the Hyd tank off because I didn't need it. The hyd lines to and from the pump and tank have the Banjo type fittings which I don't know how you will adapt.
Also be careful, I posted about hoses popping apart from not being installed fully before being crimped.
 
 
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