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  1. #1
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    2008 Yuchai 306 Dozer, 2008 Jinma 454 4x4 Tractor

    Default Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    My intent is not to attempt to get help with this, I just wanted people to be aware of the issue if they are looking to purchase a Jinma Framemount backhoe for a Jinma 454 Tractor. For background reference I bought the Jinma 454 tractor August 2008 and just received the framemount backhoe and a Yuchai Dozer. I purchased through Keno Tractors and they are attempting to resolve the identified issues.

    The frame mount backhoe (for the Jinma 454 tractor pictured below) is model number it's the HW04 from Jinma which is the larger framemount backhoe. We have ran into several snags that I'm working with Keno Tractors on, and unfortunately I had the backhoe crated to me, and I discovered all the issues as Keno didn't attempt to assemble and mount to a 454. (as they didn't have one.) From my understanding I'm one of the first (if not the first) to have ordered this framemount for the 454 in the United States.



    First issue is Jinma strengthened the frame but gave the same length bolts for mounting backhoe to the backhoe frame, which did not go through all the way, already fixed that bought longer bolts, and lock nuts and washers and also drilled out the center whole on each of the set of 3 threaded mounts (3 on each side and 3 on the back) to make a through bolt mount. ($60 in bolts and nuts)

    Second issue the PTO pump was designed for an older style 454 and could not be mounted, waiting for Jinma to send me an adaptor or new pump. See pics below first is the back of the tractor second is the PTO pump. First is 3 holes second is 4 and configuration is completely different.





    Third issue, the backhoe frame mounts up by the steps and also back on the lower 3 point arm pins (if you take the 3 point arms off) but the brackets can not slip inside the backhoe frame or to the outside as the frame is the exact width where a straight plate can not fit on the inside and if it's on the outside you can't actually get the castle nut and pin on all the way. Keno is probably going to create for me some modified brackets with a 90 degree corner to make it fit. First pic is left side of tractor, where I attempted to beat the bracket in with a hammer but couldn't get it to go down even wedged, second one is the right one at the same time, and couldn't even get it to wedge.





    Fourth and related fifth issue, We were provided a seat adaptor from Keno that they use on their 354 and 254's with framemount backhoes. It allows me to turn the seat of the tractor around using the spring seat. Unfrotunately it raises the seat 4 inches which is already fairly high on a 454, which makes control operation uncomfortable. The other issue is if you turn the seat around and slide the seat to the last pin towards the backhoe I'm still about 12" from reaching the backhoe controls. Keno or Jinma is going to have to figure something out on this one, likely adding a backhoe seat like you would have on a 3 point mount backhoe (although the configuration of the backhoe is different so you can't just use one from the 3 point mount hoe.) We'll see where this one ends up and I'll update the posts as we fix issues. See pics. First pic you can see the adaptor under the seat it has a pin and you can rotate the seat. Second pic is me sitting in the seat with my back against the back of the seat with the seat adjusted all the way towards the backhoe, I'm a short guy but my hands are still 12" from reaching the controls without leaning forward.




  2. #2
    Veteran Member Bob Rooks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    Kyle,
    Looks like your PTO and the four-bolt hydraulic pump both have male tangs. One of them has to have a guzinta.
    Yuchai YCT dozer, Mustang 2040 skid steer, Mitsubishi MS035 Mini-Ex, Trimble equipped 7' Dual Dozer, and a LiTW BH7600 back hoe for sale.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    There is a mounting plate that should connect to the 3-bolt flange and then a cross connector piece that will drive the pump, we have this set up for the 354 Tractors I'm not sure if it's the same for the 454 tractors

    Tommy
    Affordable tractor Sales
    Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

  4. #4
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    2006 Kama554; 92 Belarus 250AS

    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    Kyle,
    Nice pictures and problem description. It looks like a new set of brackets for the rear attachment should fix you up. It would be great if they had 2 plates to capture the frame arms on both sides. I assume the 2 sides of the frame are welded together somewhere else? A picture of the whole thing and the forward attachment points would be helpful. If you provide a sketch and critical dimensions i.e. [diameter, length, and spacing of the pins, size and spacing of the frame arms, dimensions and locations of the slots in the arms, and slot location relative to the pins with the frame attached to the front mounting points], I'm sure Keno can have them made.

    I'm working on a homebuilt frame myself and I'm curious about the overall design of yours.
    What size is the backhoe? Is the frame about 2" x 4", solid steel or rectangular tubing?

    Check out the seat function about 1:15 into this video of a JD 110 TLB. The seat just flips back to use the hoe. That might solve your height and reach issues. I'm sure the special symmetrical JD seat will not be cheap but it should be comfortable and durable.
    YouTube - John Deere 110.mpg
    2006 Kama 554, 92 Belarus 250AS, Bombardier Outlander Max 400.

  5. #5
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    2008 Yuchai 306 Dozer, 2008 Jinma 454 4x4 Tractor

    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Blazer View Post
    I'm working on a homebuilt frame myself and I'm curious about the overall design of yours.
    What size is the backhoe? Is the frame about 2" x 4", solid steel or rectangular tubing?
    I can't get pictures very well after I bolted the backhoe frame to the backhoe and then to the tractor (and I don't want to take apart to do the pics at this point ) I'll give you some measurements and further description to help you figure out your homebuilt frame. The frame length I did not get but the front attaches by going through a bracket up by front end loader arms (see pic I circled it) using a bolt with pin (like on the front end loader arms.)



    The frame is made of rectangular tubing and the front of it just is bolted as I mentioned no cross-members up front. It comes back (looks straight to me but haven't checked the frame for square) and then it hangs from the brackets (that don't fit) off the lower 3 point arm pins I pictured before. The two sides of the frame are welded together on the backend to using the same type of tubing to make it look like a rectangle on back and there is an additional cross member just at the front of where the controls/reservoir mount to, to roughtly make a square on the frame where the backhoe controls/reservoir sit.

    The reason it doesn't fit is the frame is 16" at the bolt holes on the inside of the side pieces of the backhoe frame. It is 19 3/8" if you measure from outside to outside of the side frame at the bolt holes. The bracket is 3/8" thick at the lower bolt holes but it has a welded on piece to make it thicker where it slides over the 3 point lower pins. The bracket measures 1" (or 31/32") thick at the 3 point pin hole.

    The case of the tractor from the beginning of one 3 point pin to the other 3 point pin is 16" (same as the frame, hence why two 3/8" thick brackets can't slide on the inside.) The lower 3 points pins are 3" in total length each and 1.5inches is threaded and 1.5 inches in not threaded. The washer that slides onto the unthreaded portion before the Castle nut is 3/16" This means it won't fit on the outside either as you can't actually screw on the Castle nut with washer all the way on the threaded portion so you can get the pin in. I currently have it hanging this way with just the Washer and Castle nut on but can't get it tightened enough to get the pin in. Meaning during operation the Castle nut could work off and the whole backhoe frame fall in the middle of operation.

    And yes I have shared this information with Keno, even before I posted up here.

    As to some of the other issues, I thought of the symetrical flip seats, and although they would address the height issue, they would still not bring me close enough to operate the backhoe I believe. From the video I can tell the JD Backhoe was significantly closer to the back of the tractor. I believe Jinma extended this frame in order for the outriggers to clear the larger 454 tires, but they did not do a reconfiguration that brought the controls closer to the rear of the tractor. See additional photo I did not include in the first post.



    I did talk to Keno again since posting, they are working this with China, I agree the brackets are a quick fix to resolve, the seat is more of an issue as the framemount backhoe also had a different configuration of the reservoir and it does not have a mounting point for an additional seat and is not sturdy enough to make one, so they can't just make it the same as a 3 point mount backhoe with a bolted on additional seat. I believe, due to the large space between the tractor seat and the backhoe controls, the ideal solution would be to mount another seat and then remove the adaptor from the tractor seat that allows it to rotate, just won't be easy)

    Hope that added a few more details to help clarify some issues
    2008 Yuchai 306 Dozer, 2008 Jinma 454 4x4 Tractor, ZL40 FEL, HW04 Frame Mnt BH for 454: 6 way Blade, 12k Winch for 306 Dozer; 3-point imps Danuser J20/80 Post Hole Digger, 9" bit (40" length,) 7" ext, 5' Howser Bush Hog, Harrow, Blade

  6. #6
    New Member
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    2008 Yuchai 306 Dozer, 2008 Jinma 454 4x4 Tractor

    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Affordable View Post
    There is a mounting plate that should connect to the 3-bolt flange and then a cross connector piece that will drive the pump, we have this set up for the 354 Tractors I'm not sure if it's the same for the 454 tractors

    Tommy
    Affordable tractor Sales
    Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company
    Believe you are correct, that's what Keno thought too, having Jinma validate and then send it to me, hopefully this will be a quick fix for the PTO pump as well.
    2008 Yuchai 306 Dozer, 2008 Jinma 454 4x4 Tractor, ZL40 FEL, HW04 Frame Mnt BH for 454: 6 way Blade, 12k Winch for 306 Dozer; 3-point imps Danuser J20/80 Post Hole Digger, 9" bit (40" length,) 7" ext, 5' Howser Bush Hog, Harrow, Blade

  7. #7
    Elite Member SPIKER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    I had to grind off some of the washer/spacer that is welded onto the plate for the rear 3pt links mounts for my jw03 hoe on my JM284.

    like the looks of that mach though...

    mark
    I may remember why I went to the other end of the shop, I'm just afraid once I get there I'll forget how to get back!

  8. #8
    Elite Member RonMar's Avatar
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    Jinma 284 delivered 06/28/05

    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    From the pics and parts you show of the backhoe, it looks a lot like my HW-03...

    If it is like he HW-03 I have, there are a couple of things to look at when you get it into operation.
    1. Filler cap. Mine is vented, but the pipe that is welded intothe top of hte tank, protrudes quite a ways down into the tank. I think they did this to try and limit how much fluid you can put into the tank. With the tank filled up to where the pipe meets the fluid, as the fluid expands during use, it blocks access to the cap vent. The warming expanding air trapped in the top of the tank will force fluid up the filler neck and out the vent holes in the cap. After several burp sessions onto the tank top and my boots, I decided that since the dipstick pipe does not go below the top skin of the tank, it would make a better vent, so I converted this pipe to my vent. I plugged the vent holes in the cap, and I visually check fluid level by removing the cap and looking down the filler neck pipe.

    2. The oil return banjo fitting to the reservoir tank was restrictive, and the fluid returning from the valve re-enters the reservoir as a high velocity straight stream under your left foot when operating the backhoe. This stream shoots across the top of the fluid and strikes the top of the fluid, entraining air bubbles into the fluid in the tank. To visualize what I am talking about, try and fill a bucket from a garden hose with a high velocity straight stream nozzel. In short, you can't. the straight stream drags so much air into the bucket that the water looks like it is boiling, and all the splashing spills the water at the top out of the bucket never allowing it to fill completely.

    The direction that the fluid is injected into the tank causes the fluid in the tank to flow/move clockwise as viewed from the front of your tractor. This flow with the entrained air bubbles flows right down past the strainer and outlet port to the hydraulic pump. I was wondering why my pump was so noisy, and that was the reason. I added a return line filter to my hoe, and the return port to the tank caused so much backpressure that I blew out an "O" ring at the filter cartridge. I replaced the banjo fitting at the tank return with a welded pipe elbow. This lets the fluid re-enter the tank at a much lower velocity, and solved my filter back pressure problems. The pump is also perfectly quiet now... It is like filling the above mentioned bucket with the same garden hose, without the straight stream nozzel.

    3. If the hoe base is connected to the frame like mine is, with several bolts, check and tighten these regularly as they quickly work loose in operation.

    You will also possibly find some annoyances with how the valve operates. Mine only has one load check valve on the system, when it should have them on each valve. This means that is nome cases, some multiple actions won't act like they they should. IE, if you command boomUP and boom swing at the same time, you will actually get boom down and boom swing, as the weight of the boom overpowers the fluid flow and it takes the path of least resistance thru the swing cylinders. you will quickly lean that boom up is a command done all by itself.

    Good luck
    Ron

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    Kyle,
    Thanks for the additional pics and description.

    I came upon this dealer site with some HW-03 mounting tips.

    Jinma Backhoe - Tractor Outlet Tractors Loaders Back Hoes Implements

    It looks like the foot rests alongside the control box have some substantial support. Maybe you can make a seat support that extends back from there. The seat and controls on my used hoe (ARPS 730) are all hung off a pair of 1/2 x 2" bars. This pic shows the assembly.

    The seat rotates with the boom Here it is trying it out on the 3-point:
    2006 Kama 554, 92 Belarus 250AS, Bombardier Outlander Max 400.

  10. #10
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    2008 Yuchai 306 Dozer, 2008 Jinma 454 4x4 Tractor

    Default Re: Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

    Alright a little update for those keeping track. Keno Tractors (my dealer) asked me to fix the 3 point pin brackets, my dad welded them up for me. He took the existing 3 point (Cat 1) bracket and cut it and added a little bit of an elbow to make it clear the backhoe frame. Per one of the earlier suggestions he made an outer frame bracket as well. This will prevent the frame from sliding back and forth on the pin (although we could have used a spacer to do that) and should add some additional strength since you could probably break the 3 point pin before breaking the inner and outer bracket off the backhoe frame.

    Just a note these pictures are of the the brackets before "adjustment" to get them on the tractor. We made them kinda snug so we had to ream out the 3 point pin hole on the outer (square shaped) bracket. We also cut the corners of the inner brackets so that we could put the brackets on the 3 point pin and swing them up (towards the front of the tractor) and we had to cut a little bit of corner off so they didn't hit the case. Otherwise we could have just slid the bracket on first, then jacked up the backhoe frame. Lastly we lightly used the grinder on the backhoe frame on the inside to take off some burrs and to smooth the frame so that sliding the brackets in would be tight and right.

    This is the inner bracket that was modified


    This is the outer bracket we made


    As for the other issues Keno Tractors sent us the PTO hydraulic pump adapter that they got from a dealer in Texas. Turns out that there are two different sizes as the adaptor (which was suppose to be for a HW/JW03 to a 354 tractor) is too small for the HW04 pump and was also to small for the tractor. It didn't fit either side. Waiting for China to now sent to correct part.

    Keno made me up a seat adaptor. It consisted of a bracket that could hold two seats, The regular tractor seat and a rear facing one for the backhoe. I don't know if I like that. We might remake it since they gave us the extra seats and sliders now. I like the idea more of having the seat mount to the backhoe so when you take off the backhoe the seat comes off too. With this set up you have to slide the tractor seat forward to slide the backhoe seat back, otherwise they hit each other and then you have an extra seat hanging off (and possibly in the way) the back of the tractor. I will have to take some measurements but it could interfere with other 3 point implements (like my Danuser post hole digger.) I'll post pictures of whatever we end up with for the seat. That's for the suggestiosn guys they are helping!
    Last edited by KyleG; 01-12-2009 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Typos
    2008 Yuchai 306 Dozer, 2008 Jinma 454 4x4 Tractor, ZL40 FEL, HW04 Frame Mnt BH for 454: 6 way Blade, 12k Winch for 306 Dozer; 3-point imps Danuser J20/80 Post Hole Digger, 9" bit (40" length,) 7" ext, 5' Howser Bush Hog, Harrow, Blade

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