Major Tractor Woes in Paradise

[Rich Waugh]

After a couple of hours mowing today I was cleaning the tractor and noticed an oil spot beneath the engine. I started the engine and was dismayed to see a small but steady stream of oil pissing from the rear of the oil sump. Definitely not a thing I wanted to see!

I increased the engine RPM and when it was at near full-throttle the leak slowed to less than one drop per minute. 50 drops per minute at 1400 RPM and a stream commenced at about 800-900 RPM. Baffling, at least to me. I peered up under it and it seems to be coming from the area where the bell housing meets the sump, centered over the front drive shaft. I just changed the oil and filter a couple days ago, by the way.

I spoke to Ronald at RanchHand Supply and he thought it might be that one or more of the bolts that hold the bell housing to the sump and block had loosened enough to allow the gasket there to leak, and that he didn't think it was the rear main seal since no oil was peeing from the weep hole in the bell housing itself. I have to say that makes sense to me, but it's pretty daunting to say the least. Either way, I'm looking at having to split the **** tractor, a task for which I'm not well-equipped, either mentally or logistically, but one that I wouldn't know who else to get to do down here.

Before I put myself through all the changes to split this tractor I'm tossing this out to get input from all you guys. Anybody have any other ideas as to the cause of this oil leak? I'm going to try a couple more little diagnostic things before I go any further and I'll certainly entertain any suggestions as to things to check while I'm at it.

If I do have to split the tractor, I'll want to order the necessary repair parts and supplies so I have them on had when they're needed. It can take as much as two weeks for Priority Mail to get stuff to me here, so I kind of need to take my best guess as to what I might need and then order it. That's another area in which I'd like some suggestions from anyone who has maybe been here before or at least somewhere similar - don't want to order way to much but I don't want to come up missing anything that I can't make or fake, either.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Rich

(I also posted this on CTW, for those who read both forums.)

 

[Bob Rooks]

1) Make sure the oil level is correct.
2) Drain off about two quarts of oil and see if the issue remains.
3) See if you can slip a feeler gauge between the oil sump and the clutch housing.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Thanks Bob, I'll be checking that stuff today.

I'll report my findings.

Rich

 

[bluechip]

We have seen the bolts that hold the engine bell housing to the block come loose on several Yangdong engines. Bad news is the tractor has to be split, remove the flywheel from the engine to get to them. be sure to lock tite them back in. For others reading this, If you do a clutch job on one of these, its a good idea to remove the flywheel and check these bolts while your in there

 

[Rich Waugh]

Thanks Chip, that seems to be the consensus. I'm going to drain off a couple quarts tomorrow and see what effect that has on the leak and go from there. I'm afraid that I'll wind up splitting it, but I'm just enough of a Pollyanna to hope that it is just overfilled. The way my luck usually runs though, that ain't likely - I could fall face first into a wheelbarrow full of big boobs and come up sucking my thumb most times, so I'm not holding out a lot of hope for the overfill situation.

I appreciate the response!

Rich

 

[Affordable]

Too Bad I'm not going on vacation in the Virgin Islands,I would give you a hand,if you can get somebody there to give you a hand you could prob.do the job,you need a level surface about 10'-long to slide the tractor apart and a couple of floor jacks.We can walk you thru the rest.

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Rich Waugh]

Hey Tommy, there's still time to plan a vacation down here if you hurry - I won't be starting on this until after I've ordered the seal and gasket from you. ****, that gives you a good three or four day to make your reservations! (grin)

I have just enough more-or-less level concrete to do this job and two small floor jacks and I've even looked at a couple of posts about splitting tractors, so I figure I know all there is to know about this, right? In other words, expect some phone calls before long.

While I'm certainly not looking forward to doing this, I actually feel pretty confident that I can get it done with some guidance from you guys. I'll have to get a buddy of mine over here to help shove it back together, I'm sure, unless a miracle happens and it slips home on the first try. I've never even had that happen when putting a car transmission back in, so I doubt it will happen with the tractor, but stranger things have happened.

I sure do appreciate the support! You guys are tops.

Rich

 

[3RRL]

I sympathize with your problem oil leak.
And trust me, I KNOW what it's like to have to improvise to get a job done under less than ideal conditions. You will just have to suck it up and go for it. However, before you split that tractor, see if you can post a photo of exactly where that oil is coming from. Chip is probably correct, but perhaps it could also be one or more of the main sump bolts are loose? That is not the oil pan, but what they call the main sump...that casting which houses the crankshaft.

Chip would know better, but I think there are bolts for it that go through the oil pan, to the engine block (on each corner)... At least there are on my Kama. The rest of them are on the outside and up of the oil pan. I think them being loose would produce the same (similar) type of leak. Replacing the oil seal is probably a good measure, but it is probably OK, or oil would (for sure) be coming out of your bell housing weep hole. Plus, your clutch would be slipping like crazy.

The bell housing bolts (at least on my Kama) are NOT the bolts that seal off the engine oil from the bell housing. Once you remove the bell housing bolts to expose the clutch pack and flywheel, you need to take the clutch pack and flywheel off. Then, behind them, there is a casting flange which bolts up to the engine block. That would be where the oil leak is. Below are a couple photos of when I split my tractor showing what I'm talking about.

This first one is where the split occurs between the bell housing and that cast flange which seals off the to the engine block. The next two photos show the clutch pack bolted to the flywheel.



Once your remove the clutch pack and flywheel, that flange casting is exposed, as seen in the first photo below. There were many large bolts on my Kama that held the flange onto the engine block. There is also a gasket you will need to buy or make when you take the flange off. You can also see the rear main seal which goes around the crankshaft drive end. In the second photo, the clutch pack, flywheel and that flange are removed. That photo shows where the main sump is bolted up to the engine block.



So as you can see from those photos, if the main sump is not sealed tight against the bottom of the engine block, that could also produce a leak like you describe... Mostly from the sides though. So those flange housing bolts being loose is probably right if the leak is coming right in the middle of the engine where it meets the bell housing. However, it could also be leaking from the sides and dripping down to the middle?

Anyway, I hope you find an easier cure than having to split the tractor.
I'm hoping for your sake, maybe it's one or more of those bolts you can get to without splitting. Maybe even the oil pan itself? Good luck and let us know what you find.
Rob-

 

[Rich Waugh]

Update:

I drained out a couple of quarts of oil today and started it up - still leaking. Maybe not as profoundly, but definitely leaking significantly. I didn't run it more than about thirty seconds and then shut it down and looked for the oil tracks on the sump/bell housing. Sure enough, the oil is originating at the junction of the sump and forward bell housing half, about dead center. I stuck a .005" feeler gauge up there but couldn't really tell too much with it - it was a bit short to reach up in that narrow area and then try to jam it between the sump/block and the bell housing. In some places it went in a fraction of an inch and then stopped, another place it went in almost an inch and stopped, most places just no go.

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/richwaugh/OilLeak1.jpg

I pulled the bolt out of the bottom of the bell housing, and there was one small drop of oil on the end of it, but nothing drained out. No oil, no water, no soy sauce.

So, I guess I'm going to have to split the blasted tractor. I just picked up a nice blacksmithing commission last night so that has to be a priority, but I'll get the seal and gaskets ordered so I can start on the tractor when I have some time. It never fails that something like this happens when I can least afford the time to mess with it. The biennial North American Blacksmith's Conference is coming up the first week of June and I'm on the setup crew for it so that will knock out a couple of weeks, too. I really want this tractor operational so I can get my new land cleared, ******! If I knew it wouldn't bust the **** thing in half I'd go ahead and run it, since it doesn't leak hardly at all when the engine is up around 1800rpm or so, but that just doesn't seem smart, somehow.

Thanks for all the guidance, guys! I'll post an update when I finally get something real accomplished on this.

Rich

 

[stevem5215]

Why not just run it for a couple hours the way it is and see if you can get your job done ? Maybe it won't leak enough to worry about it. Everything drips once they get old but if it's not bad then it's not something to worry about till you have spare time to do so.

Maybe I'm all wet on this but seems to me like the way to go.
(short of having tommy visit you on vacation lol... which most all of us would be glad to do say around January)

Steve (snowy Pittsburgh, Pa)