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  1. #1
    Elite Member SPIKER's Avatar
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    Jun 2002
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    Ohio, Jeromesville, Ashland County
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    Jinma 284

    Default Well this was a bad day...

    today I went out to the farm to work on my broken down car. it was one of those this is bad so pull & replace then find this other part bad ect ect as the day went. Wind blowing alot too. well about 4 pm I went over to the barn and hear my JINMA running all on its own. I parked it yesterday pulled the key & hooked up the battery maintainer as I wants planning on running it for a while. It had a half tank or so of fuel after I parked it yesterday. Well I am not sure WHAT or HOW it managed to fire up as it was parked for a good half hr prior to me locking up the barn for the night. I am not sure if the maintainer clamp slid down and hit the starter sol post or not? I yanked the terminal off when I got out and heard the tractor running. the battery was 100$% DOA would not even power up the gauges after I shut it off. It was still running and very warm barn was full of fumes and from what I could tell there cant be a lot of fuel left in it.

    I'm going to assume that the starter staid spinning full time until the battery died so I'm thinking the flywheel & starter may be shot When I hooked up the charger booster (not the small maintainer) a little while later the charger acted as if there was a dead short so not sure if it was in the battery or the starter melted down at this point or am not sure that it was not a bad key switch or the maintainer shorted on the starter sol?

    any suggestions as to what to look for first??? Has anyone else ever heard of this happening?

    2002 jinma 284 w. 450 hrs factory battery was still good until this indecent not a lot of issues that have not been outright abuse of the tractor until this point..

    thanks all..

    MarkM
    I may remember why I went to the other end of the shop, I'm just afraid once I get there I'll forget how to get back!

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Bob Rooks's Avatar
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    Bothell & Silverdale, WA
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    Yuchai Bulldozer

    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    I guess it's a good thing then that you didn't park it in gear like you should have. Always place charger clamps on the battery posts - not on the starter connections. What do your maintainer clamps look like? Any burn marks on the starter solenoid posts? Time to pull the starter and check the pinion and ring gear. You may be able to save the battery if it isn't too old.
    Yuchai 306R dozer, Mustang 2040 skid steer, Mitsubishi MS035 Mini-Ex with four buckets and a rake, Trimble equipped 7' Dual Dozer with twin GCR-2 laser receivers, and a LiTW BH7600 back hoe (sold).

  3. #3
    Super Member greg_g's Avatar
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    Western Kentucky
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    JD3720 Cab, 300X loader with 4-in-1 bucket

    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    Ring and pinion gears are probably ok. Once the tractor started, the speed differential between the flywheel and the starter motor would have released the pinion gear from the ring gear. Starter brushes are probably gone though. Battery may have boiled out all the acid too.

    Starter can probably be rebuilt, only cost me $65 to have a QD100C3 redone locally. While the starter's in the shop, refill the battery and try the charger on on it again. If it still doesn't accept a charge, some of the plates may have fused.

    //greg//
    USN (Ret)
    Former Chinese tractor owner (x4)
    Current John Deere owner

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    Man that could have been alot worse,once you figure out what you need let me know I will be glad to help.I would guess you are prob. going to need a starter, battery for sure.


    Tommy
    Affordable Tractor Sales
    "Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
    Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

  5. #5
    Bronze Member DJ4wd's Avatar
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    Oct 2010
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    Central Ohio
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    Rhino International 3224

    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    I've never even heard of someone charging though the starter, I don't even like putting the ground on the frame. I would say you had somebody looking out for you on this one. Just think if it had been in gear like Bob was saying.
    A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one.
    Benjamin Franklin

  6. #6
    Super Member greg_g's Avatar
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    Western Kentucky
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    JD3720 Cab, 300X loader with 4-in-1 bucket

    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ4wd View Post
    Just think if it had been in gear
    Well - understanding that it's a Y385 and a cool Ohio autumn - it probably wouldn't have started at all. That however, still could have gone two ways; vibration knocking off a charger clamp and ending the problem right there - or - an overheated electrical system starting a fire.

    //greg//
    USN (Ret)
    Former Chinese tractor owner (x4)
    Current John Deere owner

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Bob Rooks's Avatar
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    Yuchai Bulldozer

    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    Quote Originally Posted by greg_g View Post
    That however, still could have gone two ways; vibration knocking off a charger clamp and ending the problem right there - or - an overheated electrical system starting a fire.
    //greg//
    Three ways Greg; Starter torque multiplied by the transmission and differential gearing - could have gone through a wall while on fire, crashing into the propane and diesel storage tank on the other side... Yep, he was real lucky.
    But then I suppose he could have been struck down by a comet too...
    Yuchai 306R dozer, Mustang 2040 skid steer, Mitsubishi MS035 Mini-Ex with four buckets and a rake, Trimble equipped 7' Dual Dozer with twin GCR-2 laser receivers, and a LiTW BH7600 back hoe (sold).

  8. #8
    Elite Member SPIKER's Avatar
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    Ohio, Jeromesville, Ashland County
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    Jinma 284

    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    Yep: getting ready to head out and take a look shortly.
    I always park it in Neutral and drop the FEL down on the ground. I dont think it would have made it though the barn wall as there is a 6x6 there but probably would not have started in gear.
    Even though it was a warm Ohio night this thing has never failed to fire pretty easy. It starts all the time down well below 0 without block heat for the first 8 years of its life. Last year I put in a lower rad heater KATZ style heater.
    I'm going to put in a the Battery Disconnect that I bought um like 5 years ago now ya little late. I had used the battery terminal for easy hook up & un-hooking of the maintainer for years, I had used a plastic SOL terminal cover to protect the terminal. It must have fallen off at some point when I was brush hogging >? I had not noticed it missing but it was not there after the indecent.

    I'LL post back tonight and try to get some pics.

    Mark
    I may remember why I went to the other end of the shop, I'm just afraid once I get there I'll forget how to get back!

  9. #9
    Elite Member RonMar's Avatar
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    Port Angeles WA
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    Jinma 284 delivered 06/28/05

    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    Wow, that could have been a lot worse. Disconnect the battery from starter and try the charger again. Most likley the battery is toast. If more than a year old and held below 10.6V(absolute minimum any lead acid battery should be discharged to) by a shorted starter solenoid, the plates are most likley sulfated beyond recovery...

    Next(with battery disconnected) measure across the two large terminals on the solenoid(one connects to battery +, other connects to starter motor) with an ohm meter. This should be open, If it is shorted, the solenoid contact bar may be fused across the contacts which is not uncommon in a runaway starter event. If the ring and drive gear are ok, you may only need brushes, bushings and starter solenoid contacts/overhaul...
    Ron

  10. #10
    Elite Member SPIKER's Avatar
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    Ohio, Jeromesville, Ashland County
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    Default Re: Well this was a bad day...

    Well all in all so far it is not too bad. the starter is pretty good shape considering what happened. the brushes are shot pretty much warn down / melted away. there is maybe 3/8" of brush material left of them. The communicator was fine little brush wear typical and ok so I cleaned that up with some silica emery cloth. I Ohm-ed out the windings & SOL all seemed OK no shorts anyway. I had forgotten about buying a spare starter when I brought in my container full way back when but when I looked there one was...

    I posted a bunch of pics on Photobucket

    starter fired up due to the Hyd QB breaking the zip ties that I had holding the hose up & out of the way.


    The zip ties actually broke when I was brush hogging high weeds & was flopping around so I had stuffed it up and above the Battery Terminal Cable to hold it out of the way of weeds on way back to the barn last week. I forgot about it setting there.

    first look at the brush holders & top after cover was removed.

    close up but not clear.
    ..

    the Communicator assy greased up from melted brushes.


    cleaned up


    brush holder gummed up pretty bad.


    brush left over 3/8" high is all


    fly wheel is all good


    same with the starter gear



    so looks like I will need Brushes but I want to test the SOL as well prior to ordering parts..

    Tommy do you have brushes only?

    I also managed to change the oil & injector oil. There was almost no fuel left in there. it wouldnt fire without bleeding it down. The battery may live a little longer it took a good charge (12.54 volts holding after charge overnight) and cranked the engine good, there was a little drag on the NEW starter & the bottom bolt was partly stripped out when disassemble & didnt take any real tightening prior to being fully stripped. So I may end up drilling out & putting in a heli-coil. Not enough room for larger bolt thread so HELI-COIL will be the way for a good fix there.


    Nothing else to report. Oil seemed well used and the injector pump fluid was 90% fuel by the looks & smell. I change it just about every 10 hrs as I know the pump leaks. The pump was only big ticket item I didnt buy ahead of time..

    NOTE: this is the ORIGINAL 2002 made in china battery that came with the tractor without acid. I have left the key on 3+ times and now this. I'm chalking it up to using the Battery Anti-Sulphating chemical I put in soon after I charged it up with the first charge of acid. I also re-treated it after leaving the key on for over a week 4 or 5 years back the chemical was gotten through work on first batch and then bought 2 small bottles from harbor freight when they were closing them out & I could not locate them when I last went looking for it. It was 9 bucks for a 4 OX bottle if I remember.


    Mark
    I may remember why I went to the other end of the shop, I'm just afraid once I get there I'll forget how to get back!

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