TWO roll pins on clutch release lever?

[cedarparker]

Hi All,
Long story short: shuttle shift broke, identified roll pin holding lever to shaft as the problem (thanks mostly to help from this forum), replaced it (temporarily with a 3/16" vs 5mm), works for now.

But the root cause of the shuttle shift failing was jamming it into gear against a clutch that wasn't fully disengaging (bad boy!), thinking I'd adjust the clutch "later"... you know how that goes.

Well, it turns out the CLUTCH wasn't disengaging because it was ALSO suffering from a roll pin problem -- the external one that holds the release lever to the fork shaft. I could see the lever slipping on the shaft when someone else worked the pedal. Finally (!) got that pin out of there -- the end WAS broken, and it's mashed a bit -- and put a new one in. Works better, but the release lever is STILL slipping on the shaft (and therefore the clutch still fails to completely disengage).

So I had a look at the exploded view in the parts illustration manual, and they call out TWO pins -- #52 ("pin 5x32") AND #16 ("Pin 8x32"):

A pin within a pin? I've heard of doing this, but didn't realize it came that way from the factory. Here's a picture of the top of the release lever that shows the pin inside something, but I can't tell if it's a pin or a sleeve that's integral with the release lever:

Has anyone had this issue before? Does anyone know for sure if TWO pins need to be replaced? I hammered a little on the outer pin but it didn't seem to budge, and I don't want to beat it to death if it's not supposed to come out.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[cedarparker]

Duh, I forgot to mention: Jinma 284, 2006 vintage, ~370 hours.
Sorry, and Thanks,
Jeff

 

[greg_g]

Has anyone had this issue before? Does anyone know for sure if TWO pins need to be replaced? I hammered a little on the outer pin but it didn't seem to budge, and I don't want to beat it to death if it's not supposed to come out.

Issue is common, mainly because of build errors. Yes, it shows nested roll pins in the diagrams. But no, not all tractors roll off the assembly line so equipped. We've been recommending for years to double pin that location AND - when circumstances cause the tractor to be split - the clutch fork as well.

Roll pins are brittle, as you saw by the broken pieces. That's why they make roll pin punch tools. A set makes a nice addition to the toolbox. You select one with the appropriate outside diameter for removal, then switch to one with the appropriate inside diameter for installation.

//greg//

 

[RickB]

Kuhn equipment uses doubled rollpins extensively.

 

[chris85]

Just happened to my 284, I purchased the two seperate pins put them together first then drove them in at the same time, worked great.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Back to my symantics. The single coiled spring pin is far superior to a single roll (split) pin, and very superior to a doubled up single roll (split) pin. I'm not the only one that prefers these over the standard roll pin. Not seeking criticism, just sharing knowledge.

SPIROL Coiled Spring Pins

 

[EE_Bota]

Back to my symantics. The single coiled spring pin is far superior to a single roll (split) pin, and very superior to a doubled up single roll (split) pin. I'm not the only one that prefers these over the standard roll pin. Not seeking criticism, just sharing knowledge.

SPIROL Coiled Spring Pins

I have never heard of these, so I took a minute to read up on them. They do sound slick, and have different duty ratings so the designer can come up with the right configuration to protect the pin and the hole. I will have to remember these for future reference.

 

[TractorGals]

I am very interested to know how you remove the old roll pins.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I am very interested to know how you remove the old roll pins.

I would use a straight pin punch of the largest appropriate size, but first make sure that the holes are aligned straight through. You will have to remove any interferences to clear access space.

 

[TractorGals]

I would use a straight pin punch of the largest appropriate size, but first make sure that the holes are aligned straight through. You will have to remove any interferences to clear access space.

Thank you for your kind reply. The problem is that because of the structural support gusset above the arm/shaft, the only access is from below and worse yet, there is not enough room for the pin to be driven out the top. There is less than a 1/2" gap above the pin.
Over the week end l managed to use a pry bar to push down on the top of the pins and this seems to have "fixed" the original problem, (no clutch), at least temporarily. I am guessing that the top half of the pins is holding the clutch arm to the shaft so it won't spin, again enabling me to engage the clutch.
I have no clue how long this will last which is why I am looking for away to get those pins out when this current state of affairs eventually fails again.