284 jumping out of, and now stuck in gear

[greg_g]

If we have the same manual, presumably you found the transfer case on pg62. If yes, page backward to the diagram on pg54; the creeper box. Generically it's referred to as the mid-connect box, as it could contain either a creeper gear train, or a shuttle shift assembly. Regardless, note that the rear is open. That's where it mates to the tranny, with which it shares gear oil. Given that the creeper is essentially part of the transmission, the transfer case is still the lowest common point. Rotating gear trains create fluid dynamics inside the various cases, which in turn often form currents - in which stuff (like roll pins) ride along. My KM454 had a shuttle in the mid-connect box - rather than a creeper - but the transfer case was nonetheless bolted on directly below. The 1/4" steel bearing that was inadvertently dropped in through the top, made it's way all the way through the tranny, into the shuttle box, and down into the transfer case - where it ultimately did it's damage several months later.

//greg//

 

[TheSheriff]

Thanks Greg, I agree with everything you said. No, we do not have the same manual. What follows is based on the assumption we agree a pin could not pass through the roller bearings. I agree the back of the creeper box is open, but the front of the drive gearbox is not. If there is another opening, I can't find it and my manual does not show it. I recall a discussion here several years ago about the various Xmsn drain points and someone made the comment that lube reached other areas of the Xmsn by passing through the roller bearings. What I'm seeing and how very, very slowly the Xmsn will drain if only using the transfer case drain, would seem to confirm what I read.

Greg, is it your thought there is another opening? I realize if there is, it doesn't have to be very large. In fact, it would have to be very small, or the lube from TF case would drain faster than a 1/16" trickle. Do you know where it's located? That I can't find the pin is some degree of evidence you're right, I just can't prove it.
Brad

 

[Rich Waugh]

So...did you ever actually *see* that roll pin in place before it went missing? Or are you just assuming one was there holding things together until it suddenly was transported to another dimension or transmogrified into three extra drops of gear oil? Is there *any* chance that your unit could have been assembled without that roll pin and still function for as long as it has? My guess is no, and therefore that blasted roll pin has to be *somewhere* in there, but I've been wrong befoe and undoubtedly will be again in the future.

Ditech's magnet is a good, maybe even great, idea - it certainly can't hurt and it might really help and the cost is essentially nothing. I'd suggest a neodymium magnet since they're incredibly powerful for their miniscule size.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I think the magnet is a great idea, and I see it used frequently in many applications.
I would even take it one step further with a magnetic drain plug.

Metric oil drain plugs

They also have them in inch sizes.

 

[greg_g]

Greg, is it your thought there is another opening? I realize if there is, it doesn't have to be very large. In fact, it would have to be very small, or the lube from TF case would drain faster than a 1/16" trickle. Do you know where it's located? That I can't find the pin is some degree of evidence you're right, I just can't prove it.

I cannot, it's been years since I split my last Chinese tractor. However, my memory has dusted off a bit since the last post. That steel ball that did the damage on my KAMA was actually dropped into the mid-connect box, eventually working its way to the transfer case. In your case, I believe the roll pin was actually dropped into the open tranny box - in which case I've been leading you on a wild goose chase regarding the transfer case. Having said that however, I wonder what's causing the slow flow from your transfer case (?). Given that it gets its gear oil from the mid-connect box, that would suggest (a) insufficient gear oil in the mid-connect, or (b) something blocking the drain

Good idea about the magnetic drains plugs too. Once the roll pin hits a magnet, it will hopefully no longer be moved around on the internal currents of the churning gear oil. If you think the 1009M in Bobs link is too short, perhaps these folks can help.

//greg//

 

[TheSheriff]

Thanks Greg and Bob. Now that I know I'm not losing my mind, I think it's safe to say that pin is still in the tranny box. The only place it could be is on the bottom, middle, front of the box, where I can't easily get my mag retriever due to the many large gears. I will bend some wire probes and check that area further.

Regarding the volume of oil draining from the TC... I think we're OK there. My original description was for the sake of brevity. What actually happens is I get a good 3/8" stream for 30 seconds or so (Presumably the mid box draining) and then it slows to a 1/16" trickle for at least an hour or so (Never timed it). If I remove the TC drain, and one of the two rear drains, I can empty the entire unit (Tranny, TC, mid and rear) in under 5 minutes.
Brad