2007 Jinma 284 (iron horse) will not start

[chris85]

So here's an update..
I followed the various suggestions (thank you all) and it was pointing to the GP being bad, I pulled them and just hooked to a 12v battery with jumper cables, they did not heat up at all.
Now my concern is with regards to it being much warmer this weekend (54F) I would think it should start even without the GPs.

I’m not sure if I am over thinking it or not but if I rewind and consider that my original issue was constant overheating (even with the thermostat removed), does this point toward a blow head gasket? Would that cause it not to start? Is it time to test compression? (I don’t see oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil). If I crank it over a couple times with the radiator cap removed, I do see what looks like exhaust coming out.

 

[Bob Rooks]

So here's an update..
I知 not sure if I am over thinking it or not but if I rewind and consider that my original issue was constant overheating (even with the thermostat removed)

If the cooling system is marginally sized in the first place the engine will still overheat under load with the thermostat removed because the coolant doesn't spend enough time in residence in the heat exchanger (radiator) to be cooled.

 

[Rich Waugh]

"If I crank it over a couple times with the radiator cap removed, I do see what looks like exhaust coming out."

Are you seeing exhaust coming out of the radiator?

If so, you probably DO have a blown head gasket, as any gases coming into the cooling system when cranking the engine indicates a leak between the combustion chamber and the water jacket somewhere. You hop e that it is a head gasket, which is likely since you say it has overheated previously. Blown head gasket would be the best case scenario - it could also be a bad cylinder liner or cracked block. You can run a compression test to maybe determine the presence of a leak, but only eyeball inspection will tell you where it is, I'd guess.

Fortunately, head gaskets are easy to replace on these tractors. If you bought the tractor new, there should be a replacement head gasket in the spare parts you got with the tractor. If not, Tommy will have one - be sure you give him the engine model and serial number when you call to order.

As to the overheating, removing the thermostat is not a good idea. As Bob said, the coolant needs some time in the radiator to lose heat through conduction and removing the 'stat prevents that. Better to fix the real problem instead, which is to thoroughly clean the cooling system inside and out. Drain, flush, flush again, carefully clean the radiator fins and straighten any bent ones with a radiator fin comb, make sure the fan shroud is in place properly, etc. When mowing, I sometimes have to stop every hour to clean the debris from the radiator to prevent overheating on my 304. As such, I modified the debris screen so it is easily removable to facilitate one-minute cleanings. Some guys have affixed furnace filters in front of their radiators to catch debris, but i haven't found this necessary.

One last question, just to be sure: you weren't trying to start it with the glow plugs removed, were you? It would have no compression with them out and couldn't start. I'm sure you know this, I'm jut being careful.

 

[chris85]

20130331_145154_zpsf31926ae - YouTube

Is this normal? Cold start attempt.

 

[chris85]

GPs are in..but good thought.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

20130331_145154_zpsf31926ae - YouTube

Is this normal? Cold start attempt.

Not normal, but very common. Your head gasket is leaking. That's why it won't start. Even if it did start it would be a bad idea to run it.

As others have noted, the good news is that it's not a hard fix to replace the head gasket and these engines are pretty tough.

Disconnect the ground wire on the battery. Disconnect the hood prop and push the hood out of the way. Remove the muffler. Drain the radiator and remove it. Drain the fuel tank and disconnect the fuel line. Loosen the fan belt and take off the water pump. Disconnect the wire for the glow plugs. Remove the valve cover, remove the valve train and then the head bolts. Lift the head away with a hoist. You can leave the intake and exhaust manifolds attached. Clean both faces, fit the new gasket and put everything back. When you put the head back on, use a torque wrench, when you put the valve train back adjust the valves. I think that's everything, but I'm going from memory. If you can't figure out how to take anything off post here and we'll help you.

For parts you'll need a new head gasket and a new water pump gasket, although in a pinch you can use gasket compound on the water pump. Plus whatever you break taking it apart!

With the head off would be a good time to check the glow plugs as well.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Chris,

Yeah, that video looks like the symptoms of a blown head gasket, alright. QSF gave you a pretty good rundown on what the procedure is for replacing it. I'll toss in a couple of suggestions, too.

I'd suggest new glow plugs when you order the gaskets, too. Be sure to get new sealing rings for the GPs, too.

If the head won't lift off easily, you can crank the engine once and let the compression in the good cylinder(s) pop it loose.

When you go to scrape the mating surfaces clean, first stuff clean shop rags in the cylinders to cut down on debris falling in them. When you're finished scraping, use a shop-vac to suck up the debris before and after pulling the rags out. Don't use compressed air as this can blow bad stuff down to the rings and send up scoring a cylinder liner later. Use the vacuum and a paint brush if necessary to loosen anything that doesn't suck up easily.

DO NOT use gasket cement on the head gasket. Bad juju follows from doing so.

Clean the head bolts on a wire wheel or with a wire brush. No oil.

Torque the head in the recommended sequence, doing it in two steps. First step is to 10 ft/lb less than the recommended torque. Second step takes each one to full torque in one smooth wrenching. DO NOT use oil on the bolt threads. DO NOT use Loctite on the head bolts.

When you do the valve train, torque things to recommended settings. Adjust the valves as per method given elsewhere on this site. Take your time to get the valve lash correct, it makes for a smoother-running engine.

Note the reading on your hour meter so you can remember to re-torque the head at 100 hours on the new gasket.

Change the engine oil and coolant. One or both is probably contaminated with the other, even if it doesn't look like it. Cheap insurance.

Digital camera is your best friend when taking things apart that you'll have top put back together later. (grin)

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Agree with changing oil and coolant, the head gasket is the only thing keeping them from mixing and neither is good for the other.

One other thing I left out is that when you take the head off the valves will come out. You want to keep track of which hole each came out of, and put each one back in the same hole it came out of. What I find handy is to take a cardboard box and punch a row of holes in it with a pencil, and as each valve comes out just put it in a hole in the order it came out.

I thought re-torque was at 50 hours. It's definitely important. I replaced my head gasket last summer, and last week I did my (belated) 50-hour re-torque. For good measure, I checked the valve clearances afterward. Every valve had zero clearance, which means the head had moved enough in the retorque to close the gaps. The official Jinma line is that not re-torquing after 50 hours when the engine is new is why the gaskets fail so often. I'm not sure that's the only reason but it certainly contributes.

 

[SPIKER]

Greg: sorry that was meant to be EACH PLUG should pull those amps and total amps just under 30 amps decreasing as their temp increases.. a GOOD fully charged battery should be around 12.8VDC to 13.2VDC if you only have 12volts then that is already starting to get some discharge to it and or sulphate build up inside the battery.

Mark

 

[greg_g]

Well, that's not exactly true either. Each cell of a 12v auto battery is rated at 2.1v, so technically the answer is 12.6v. Remember that the alternator is not adding any voltage to a starting equations. But also remember the insidious Chinese wiring. Regardless of the battery state of charge, not all that voltage actually reaches the GPs. That's why I suggest comparing voltage and resistance at the battery against voltage/resistance at the buss bar. So I'll amend my statement that theoretical circuit resistance (at the buss bar) would be 0.42 ohms. I was waiting for a response to that before going into individual GP resistance.

Regardless, the head gasket issue now makes this a (temporarily) academic subject.

//greg//