Buying Advice Wanting To Hear From Australian Chinese Tractor Owners

[CharlesandMegan]

I completely agree with you. common sense should always prevail. When searching for chinese tractors I also found that 1 brand 50hp would seem a lot small/light weight than the other brand of 50hp. There seems to be no benchmark, how big is a 50hp meant to be? some brands 50hp look like other brands 70hp. I bought the agrison 50hp also because it seemed much bigger, and weight etc to do tougher jobs. BUT in saying that, ive outgrown the hp, now I need a 75hp or possibly a 90hp. Always better to buy bigger than too small. End of the day I don't nag ,don't like it, and don't like when people do it either.

Never forget that when you resort to litigation you will get a lot of law and maybe not much justice.

If you are looking for a tractor then you need to tailor your looking to what you can afford.
Not only for the purchase price but following on expenses?issues.
Know that generally newcomers to the market will not have the widest dealer network or the best parts inventory.
Expect your tractor to do more than designed for then expect failure!
To use some old but perhaps now not PC commentary:
Don't send a boy to do a man's job.
A big tractor can do all a small tractor can (within reason) but the converse is that a small tractor cannot do all a big one can.
If you think you need 50 hp then you should buy 60 because all too often the task is underestimated and invariably changes over time. My father had 2 x 28 engine horsepower (ehp) tractors. I run some of the same land area and now a little more. I have a 50ehp Foton 504 a Foton 604 (60 ehp +fel) a case 2290 (156ehp), a 125 ehp industrial fel and a david brown 45 ehp with removable forklift. He used a 12 row seeder, I use a 28 row seeder. He used a 1.8 metre mower capable of about 1 acre per hour, I use a 3.1 metre moco capable of 8 acres per hour. My horsepower requirements have changed but what is done hasn't.
If you are not happy with the risk of a newcomer tractor then do not buy it.
If you want all that old school tractor suppliers have to offer then pay for it.There is no such thing as a free lunch.
There is no full dealership within over 2000km of me for my fotons, there is a limited parts supplier 100m away.
Even knowing that I bought the 604 because I was so happy with the reliability, power , simplicity (I am a simple Country boy) of the 504. I bought the 504 with 192 hrs on it, it now has 1200 or so. The 604 had 122 hrs and is now about 700. I use it for almost everything except sowing the crop and mowing the crop , the Case is for that.
Be also aware that often in the 30 to 60 hp range there are what I call full-weight tractors and compact tractors. Same hp but different weight of iron. Different weight of iron means different performance.
Locally a number of people ask my advice on what tractor they need. I have told them and the reasons for the advice.
Next time I see them they have bought something different and usually much lighter/smaller than my recommendation and they want to know a solution. When asked why? they usually reply that someone in the local pub told them. If their adviser is propping up the bar in the local pub, I doubt the value of the advice'
Now if I am asked i suggest they go to the pub and ask because the people there seem to know more than me.
At the end of the day there ain't no free lunches and you gets what you pay for.
My soapbox just collapsed under my weight so I
'll have to get off the remains.

 

[coondle]

You are right and you have learnt the hard way about sizing for HP. There is no right vsize fo 50 hp but you need to take int account the weight needed to control implements in the field especially if operating on slopes.
Probably lots of Chinese choice in NSW. I would take a look at Chery tractors, a very newcomer and you can get a lot of bang for your buck.
Plenty of chinese tractors in the around 100 hp range, trawl the internet and look see.
Good luck ion your quest.

 

[CharlesandMegan]

For sure, buy bigger horsepower, pay that extra. I know that if I go to sell my agrison 50hp second hand someone will buy it really fast because theres not many used ones on the market, perhaps because owners are content and don't sell I don't know. Seriously contemplating a 75hp or even 90hp...might just wait another month or so as I think the dollar may go up which means cheaper prices Hopefully.

You are right and you have learnt the hard way about sizing for HP. There is no right vsize fo 50 hp but you need to take int account the weight needed to control implements in the field especially if operating on slopes.
Probably lots of Chinese choice in NSW. I would take a look at Chery tractors, a very newcomer and you can get a lot of bang for your buck.
Plenty of chinese tractors in the around 100 hp range, trawl the internet and look see.
Good luck ion your quest.

 

[coondle]

To give an example of weight differences, a Chery 554 a 55hp tractor is 2326 kg(bare tractor), my foton 604 at 60 hp is 2860 kg (bare tractor) near enough 500 kg more. I know which one would be safer with 500 kg of hay hanging on the front end loader forks. A bit of difference in price though, but no direct hp comparison available

 

[CharlesandMegan]

I think my 50hp is about 3.5tonne with the loader so pretty heavy gear. I prefer that. Max the rear wheels and water ballast, makes it safer for steep inclines. I find the fel works better when there more weight at the rear...like I can lift about 800-900kg no worries on my tractor, and that's at full height. got the rams re conditioned the other month new seals etc, but it picks up no dramas. the heavier the better I believe.

 

[coondle]

Depends where you look for the weights.
Tractor data website shows 504 Foton as 3245 kg and 604 as 3405 kg, the 2860 kg for the 604 that I quoted earlier was out of the handbook 3405kg could be with ROPS and ballasts. Agrison Ultra turbo 50hp shows as 1900 kg bare tractor on the website. Front handbag and rear wheel ballast options plus loader may go to 3000kg.
I tried my 504 without cast iron ballast fitted on a trailer that handles 2000kg no worries and the tyres were hard on the mudguards.

 

[zonta223]

I have also read that and couldn't help but wonder why someone would lose a court case and return their tractor? Common sense? And I highly doubt there is an issue with the tractors themselves, if there was, im sure the owner of the tractor would have won the case. I think some people lack common sense. I think the best thing to do is visit each dealership in person and then make a choice.

I agree especially if you actually read the account accurately and don't gloss over it. Things like verbal abuse, Hanging up on you, Failure to get any action out of the dealer, refusing to obey a court order etc etc etc the list goes on and on and on. Now we only have to look at your posts on this site to know you are an apologist for this dealer.

 

[electrarc]

Hi Guys,

I am pleased to say that I have a new 82hp Foton ROPS tractor with just 22 hrs & I am very please with the quality, price and performance of both the tractor and the dealer. At around 5,000 kg with 4 in 1 bucket, weights and loaded tires. It has plenty of low down torque. I also have a 7' flail on the rear.

This is our 3rd tractor on the farm, 1 Japanese, 1 Italian, 1 Chinese. The quality of this tractor stacks up to the others in every way. For me the dealer is the difference. The Foton has a Italian loader control, Italian front axle, German clutch.

 

[coondle]

Great to hear there is a dealer looking after Foton in Qld. There is only a spare parts contact here but do not ask for anything beyond basic. Could not even supply a clutch plate recently so had mine refaced and riveted and glued on.
The contact details of the Qld dealer would be appreciated so I can at least talk to someone if needed.
I would suspect the engine is a Perkins 1000 series made under licence in China. Is the Italian front axle of Landini heritage?
One word of warning though is go around and tighten ALL bolts particularly for attachments like 3PL and the FEL.
The bolts holding the FEL brace to the front casting are especially important to keep tight. I would be tempted to remove them, check the grade and if not grade 8high tensile or better upgrade them and instal with Loctite.
Keep a very close eye on the eight bolts mounting the loader frame to the bell housing. There is not a lot of bolt into the bell housing and if at all loose they could/will soon break out some of the bell housing casting. Locktite may be a good option here too, bolt strength doesn't seem to be a problem. If these bolts start coming loose the fix is to drill into the bell housing casting by a further 19 mm and using a PLUG tap (mine was 14 mm) tap in the further depth and fit longer HT bolts of at least grade 8 or better.
I note you have a Shibaura, I had one an SE 4040, great little tractor but suffered from being lightweight for a 40 hp, the trailer I referred to earlier carried it with ease and that was before the spring packs were upgraded. The IHI motor wouldn't back out but then again the weight meant not enough grip. Four speed pto was not a lot of use to me because I only had 540 pto speed attachments.
I have over the years had many tractors on the place: Fordson E 27 N in petrol-kero wheel, and fulltrack and with Perkins P6 (wheel), Allis-Chalmers WD, Ferguson TE 20, Chamberlian 3080B, Massey Ferguson 175, Shibaura SE 4040, Case 930 (pre Comfort King), Case 930 Comfort King, Case 832 Comfort King, David Brown 990, David Brown 885, International WD6, International BTD6, International SAIWD6, Massey Ferguson 165 (backhoe), Massey Ferguson 254, Case 1070, Case 2290, Foton 504, Foton 604, Chinese 10 ton industrial FEL and Fiat 70 CI. I have 12 tractors on the place now, 4 x Cases, 2 x E 27 N,1 x A-C, ! x DB, !x 70 CI, 1 x 10t FEL, 2 x Fotons.
I wish you well with your new Foton, I am very very happy with my 2.

 

[electrarc]

Hi coondle,
Great to hear from you. This is why I love this forum. You have given me my first job in the morning before I put the Foton to work. Go and check the mounts. I have already tightened up a few and I noticed that the dealer Nation Machinery Traders have marked the wheel nuts and tightened them. They also changed out the oils and put in Australian standard oils before delivery. Yes it is a Perkins Phaser 1000 turbo 4 cyl. I think the front axle is a Carraro. My Shibi is a D23F and I can't get parts as it was a "Grey Import". It is a very light tractor but you can't kill it with a "Big Stick". I am like you, the 4 speed pto was one thing I never used either. What HP are your 2 Fotons? Again thanks for all of the great info.

Cheers Zac