Jinma 200 Hard Starts

[mierg]

Hi! My dad and I just bought a 2007 Jinma 200 and it is very hard starting. From reading the forum we've been checking the wiring and the grounds and we came across this in the solenoid. It looks like one of the wires got squished to the casing. Our question is: Is that supposed to be like that? I'm guessing it should look like the other side, does that sound right or does someone have a picture they can post? If this is incorrect could this be causing our hard starting issue?

Sorry for the newbie question. Thanks for any and all ideas.

 

[Rich Waugh]

What exactly do you mean by "hard starting?" Does the starter crank the engine when you try to start it? Do yoiu get a clicking sound from the starter but it fails to turn the engine over? Do you have to crank the engine for more than five seconds before it fires?

To me, the term hard starting means that the engine turns over but takes extended cranking to fire. That would not be an issue with the wiring, but rather with the fuel/air delivery system and/or poor compression. Wiring problems result in the solenoid not engaging the starter, the solenoid engaging the starter but the starter not turning the engine over, the solenoid clicking but doing nothing else, or nothing happening at all when you turn the key.

Which of the symptoms I listed does your tractor manifest?

 

[Affordable]

That solenoid does not look good, however describe the hard starting, is it turning over and not firing ? Starter slow ? Are you using the glow plugs ? TO you know how to activate them ? Hold the key in the Spring loaded H position for approx. 20- seconds, if you have a amp gauge it will show a 30 amp draw in the beginning and then start getting less, Need more info

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[mierg]

Thanks so much for the replies! Sorry about the lack of information.

It takes a long time to crank it but it will eventually start. I hold the key into the H position for about 10 to 20 seconds. Maybe thats not long enough? I will try to hold it longer and see what happens. Should I do something about the ssolenoid before I put it back on? I believe my dad has a multi-meter, we will test the draw after we get everything back together.

thanks again!

 

[Rich Waugh]

If the starter motor cranks the engine, then the solenoid is working. Maybe not as well as it could be, but definitely working or the starter wouldn't engage the flywheel to turn the engine over.

You shouldn't have to crank the engine for more than about five seconds before it starts. There must be a problem with the fuel/air delivery or the compression, though low compression would not only make it hard to fire, it would also make it turn over more rapidly because of less resistance form the compression. Since this a new to you tractor, you have no way of knowing if it is cranking to fast or not. So let's look at the fuel/air situation:

Is your air filter clean? After it starts, what color is the exhaust - black, gray, blue, white or no color? Does the exhaust color change under acceleration or load? Does it change when the engine gets to operating temperature? The answers to these questions will help diagnose the problem.

Is the fuel tank filled with clean, fresh diesel fuel, or is it old fuel left from the previous owner?

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I agree with Rich that if the starter motor is turning your problem is not electrical. Unless the starter motor is turning very slowly, but that doesn't seem to be your problem.

I don't want to discourage you, but it seems about every month or two someone turns up here with a tractor they just bought that is either not running or hard starting and running badly. There seems to be a pattern -- with our collective help, the owner determines that the cylinder head gasket is leaking. The owner removes the head and discovers it has been run for a long time with the leaking head (and maybe not much coolant or oil) and a bunch of pieces are toast.

See these recent threads for examples:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/277216-jinma-254-blowby-compression-testing.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/284897-dongfeng-tractor-y385t-wont-start.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/274112-2007-jinma-284-iron-horse.html

Now, the good news is that parts are readily available, and there's nothing in there that is beyond the abilities of a shade-tree mechanic with a place to work and a pretty basic tool set. There seems to be a pretty high rate of getting them going again. So there are a bunch of things that could be making your tractor hard to start, but probably the most problematic part of these engines is the head gasket. They will fail if the engine is ever allowed to overheat, or if they are not torqued down properly. These tractors are often purchased by novice operators who aren't diligent about checking the fluids. Once the head gasket goes the engine will lose both coolant and oil and bad things can happen if it is not fixed.

I think you should read those three threads, it will give you an idea of how to isolate the problems in a poorly running Chinese diesel -- unless your problem really is that the starter motor is turning too slowly. In which case we can take you through your electrical system.

 

[mrmikey]

Are you sure the glow plugs are actually heating?.....Mike

 

[mierg]

Thanks so much for the responses. My dad is going to run some tests this weekend and hopefully we will get the problem resolved. I'll read all of the articles you posted and I'll update you when we have some new information.

Thanks!!!

 

[Rich Waugh]

QSF gave you some very, very good advice. I've noticed the same syndrome he refers to and that's why I took you through all the various steps of diagnosing a poor starting issue. Those of us who have been around here a while have seen a lot of stuff go by and we're happy to help but you gotta provide the kind of information we need to give good advice. As QSF noted, these are simple machines and very amenable to shade tree mechanics fixing them, so I'm sure with a bit more detective work we'll be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[RonMar]

Another question would be, that when it is running, what RPM does it idle at with the throttle lever pulled all the way back. It should be around 900 RPM. If it is lower, it may not be delivering enough fuel for reliable starting. That along with a slow crank might make for hard starting. I find my 284 starts a little easier, if I have the throttle bumped up a little bit, to the position that gives around 1100 RPM when the engine is running.

The glowplugs are important, and one or more not working would really effect cold startup. As mentioned, when the key is turned to the "H" position, the amp gauge needle should fully deflect to the left indicating 30amps of current draw. There are 3 plugs, each pulls about 10A, so if it only points to 20amps, one plug is probably not working. If it only pulls 10A, then 2 might be bad... As the plugs warm up, they pull less current, so initially, they should pull 30A, but as they warm, that will drop to 25A then 20A. You shouldn't run the plugs longer than about 20 seconds as you can actually damage them by running them too long.

The solenoid wire dosn't look right, but as mentioned, the solenoid is just a switch, and if it is clicking and cranking when the key is turned, it is working. The small wire probably needs to be up and soldered alongside the other wire, like the pair of wires on the opposite lead are. That side with the wire down on the case is probably on the grounded side of the solenoid coil, so that is why it is still working. If you wired it in the other way, it would probably blow a fuse as that little broken wire is against the case...

Probably of more importance is the pattern of contact on the copper conductor bar. First off they should be symetrical. The fact that they are not indicates uneven contact, and possible poor conduction. The pitting also limits contact, which creates resistance and heat, which explains why the copper is a little discolored. At the very least I would try and file those flat. If they are too pitted, you may be able to flip the bar over and use the opposite side. You must also work on the two points that the bar contacts against. These must be trued-up and equalized so the bar makes equal contact across the two points. Poor connection on that copper bar could result in poor cranking speed, just like a bad battery or ground connection would...