Previous Tractors

[Turbys_1700]

How many here have owned previously any grey market tractors prior to purchasing a Chinese tractor?

I currently own a YM 1700 Yanmar used the last 11 years for finish mowing my 4+ acres. This little tractor has been absolutely wonderful. In 11 years, I've replaced two front tires, added a seat, changed out the fuse block, and just recently added gauges. She had 667 hours when purchased and now has over 1100. Been absolutely trouble free.

I want to upgrade to a larger unit, preferably 30 to 40 hp that will take a 6' finish mower. I'm looking real hard at the KAMA 35hp model. From what I've gathered most problems associated with these tractors are minor and can be repaired by someone with minimal mechanical aptitude.

Can anyone out there make a qualified comparison to my little Yanmar with a Chinese tractor?

BTW, I've lived on a farm all my life. My dad is a retired implement salesman. Raised up on D-15 and D-17 Allis Chalmers, A, M & H Farmalls, and assorted Fords, Cases, and a few JD's. Ain't life great!!!

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Soundguy]

The skills you aquired maintaining your yanie.. should help fit in with what seems to be minor problems with the chineese tractors.. leaks... etc..

I'd say the same if you had antique tractors.. anyhting that likes to be fiddled with a little bit.. etc.

Keep in mind that your japaneese yanmar is a wonderfull work of fit and finish.. even from back in the late 70's. You'l notice casting quality differences, as well as metalurgy, and conceptual differences in design. This doesn't make the chineese tractors bad.. just menas that is some ways they are more basic.. and the regular assembly line 'laws' don't always apply.

Soundguy

 

[greg_g]

It was US market, not gray market. But I had a YM240 on turf tires, and found it to be a 3 seasons tractor because of low/no traction in mud/snow. Bullet proof little tractor 9 months of the year, but sat idle most of the winter. Since its 24hp/2wd did all I asked of it when there was traction, I figured a JM254 with 25hp and 4wd should be just the right thing as a four seasons tractor. Two Jinmas actually, but that's another story.

Besides having serious dealer issues, the gearing was all wrong for my hillside property. Got rid of the Jinmas in favor of the present KM454. It does absolutely everything better than the Jinmas - except for turning in a smaller circle. I probably could have gotten by with something in the 30-40hp range too, but I like the KAMA so much that I don't even think about that any more.

This is a long way of saying that - for my situation - going straight across from a 24hp Yanmar to a 25hp Jinma didn't produce the results I expected. More power did the trick. So in your case, going from a 20hp Yanmar to a 35hp Kama/TS should do the trick.

And FWIW, I'm going to speculate that a TS354 should handle a 7 foot finish mower with no difficulty.

//greg//

 

[California]

Greg, I'd like to hear more about your YM/Jinma comparison. Not the dealer stuff since anyone would have different experiences there, but more detail about the usability of the Jinma and how it differed from the Yanmar. Was the gearing to high or too low? Weight? Traction? Reliability, or initial setup problems? Features? Operating cost and expected life-cycle cost?

 

[greg_g]

I had two JM254s in as many years. No way to avoid mentioning the so-called dealer, as mechanical incompetence on their part caused more downtime than it remedied. That experience permanently influences opinions on durability and reliability. That said, I was one of the early Jinma buyers. Others have since benefited from my discouraging experiences. Lessons learned, and all that.

Weight: Japanese tractors are considerably lighter than are Chinese. Goes to raw material availability in the respective countries. My reasoning that a 25hp Jinma should have as much power as a 24hp Yanmar failed to take that into consideration. The much lighter Yanmar "consumed" less of its horsepower as motive force. Plus the 2 cylinder Yanmar had more torque than the 3 cylinder Jinma.

Gearing: Yanmar had simple but effective 4x2 tranny. Jinma was a 3x2 with a creeper box. Don't know if you'd consider that a 6x2 or a 3x2x2. But it's really academic, as the creeper was useless for what I needed the tractor for. I'd have taken a shuttle shift any day, if it had been an available option at the time. Anyway, H2 and H3 were pretty useless for anything but transport. That left me with basically a 4 gear tractor, which sucked when mowing. I'd use H1 on level ground, but have to drop to L3 for slopes. All that shifting cost time.

Traction; as previously stated, the Yanmar was hindered by 2wd and R3 turf tires. The 4wd Jinma far surpassed the Yanmar in that department, but really could have benefited from some wider R1 ag tires. R4s would have been a good compromise, but they weren't an option either.

Reliability: The fact that the Yanmar was over 25 years old speaks for itself. But I equate reliability with availability, and the Jinma downtime caused by incompetent warranty repairs seriously compromises any meaningful comparison. I do recall a few things that weren't the dealer's fault though: Chinese belts/hoses/clamps/batteries/fluids/filters were very poor, all replaced within months of ownership.

Initial setup: I firmly believe that a dealer who performs a competent assembly and check out (dealer prep) can circumvent the dozens of niggling little problems that came with both my Jinmas. Unfortunately, when returning the tractors to fix said problems - they incompentently replaced them with others of their own making. Using my KAMA as an example, nearly all the early "bugs" worked themselves out under a simple parts-only warranty in the first 50 hours. No reason to believe a well-prepped Jinma should be any different.

Features: big plus for the Jinma was power steering. I liked the ThermoStart in the Yanmar better than glow plugs in the Jinma, but that's probably personal preference. Both were much more comfortable after I installed sprung seats. No ROPS or canopy on the Yanmar. Disc brakes Jinma, drum brakes Yanmar.

Costs: unqualified to answer, as all Jinma costs (except lost time) were eventually covered under warranty. The dealer replaced my 1st Jinma, I traded the second, feeling it only fair that that a tractor should spend more time working my property than it does sitting idle in the dealer's repair bay.

Now. Keep in mind that the 254/284 is at the top of that particular Jinma series. The 30-35hp Jinmas are a considerably different platform. Another jump is made at the 40-45hp level. My KM454 is more tractor than both Jinmas and the Yanmar all thrown together. Plus, it came from a very competent dealer. So if you're in the market for 30+HP, it invalidates a lot of the comparisons I've just made.

//greg//

 

[Scozz]

I owned a YM2000 w/loader for 4 years prior to purchasing my KM454. The Yanmar was a strong little work horse. It worked like a mule for me with little more than minor service issues. The Yanmar was priced right for my "starter" tractor to get me mowing 12+ acres of fields (5' finish mower for 5 acres of lawn and 5' bush hog for other fields 2x's a year). It was time consuming but got the job done. I upgraded the the KM454 about 7 months ago and don't know how I lived with the smaller tractor. The Kama has been awsome. My projects immediatly grew to match the size of the tractor /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Nothing but minor repairs so far. Both tractors have treated me well. Its not possible to "compare" the two against each other ... both tractors are an outstanding value for the $. If your looking for more HP you will likely have to make the leap from Grey to Chinese as larger (over 30 HP) greys are harder to find than a hens tooth. My advise is buy more tractor than you think you'll need ... you'll grow into it more quickly than you'd think ... Scozz

 

[thingy]

As far as the gearing on 254 jinma's,,,,got to keep saying it cause greg does,,,,,,,I do not have the problem greg said he had,,it has to many gears for me,,,I got hills,,and I got flat spots,,I got some slopes that are close to a 45 degree angle,,,I pull a 5 ft kk hog with it,,,they have a 3 speed shifter with two hi/lo's,,[one is called a creeper],,you just got to find the combination that works for you,,I do all mowing up hills and on flats in this combination,,creeper in low,other hi/lo in high,,,using just 2nd,and 3rd,,,2nd for hills and rough places,,3rd for rest,3rd in this combination is about right as far as speed,,2nd is slower,,but it works just fine,,plently of power in this combination,,and no shifting of either hi/lo ranges,,,,,,now the lo/lo.[both in low],,using 1st and 2nd,is perfect for tilling,,you got to go real slow when tilling,,,so,,that range of gears also has a purpose if you are tilling,,,now thats about half of the combinations of gears you got to choose from on these,,like I said,,to many for me,,but for someone else,,,maybe not,,,,,keep in mind this is a standard trans. we are talking about,,,its not an automatic,,or hydrostatic or what ever,,,,,this is the way standard trans. work,,you are in one gear at a time,,and you have to push clutch in and shift to next gear,,,,one other thing,,don't some of those[all],yamores let you shift with out clutch,,and don't require a full stop to shift if using clutch,,,,??,,,,,these jinmas won't let you do that,,you got to come to a stop,,push clutch in,,shift,,and take off anew,,,thats an agravation for sure,,,but,,,,thought you should know that,,,, thingy

 

[California]

Greg, Scozz, thanks for the comparisons between your Yanmar and Chinese tractors.

I had assumed 25 hp was equivalent to 24 hp but after reading this it is clear that 10 - 15 more hp is needed to have noticeably better capability.

Thinking seriously about this, I should probably be downsizing now that I've completed my big projects. Now the main uses are the loader and mower and this YM240 is kinda big for mowing in a orchard - see attached. But it runs good so I'll probably keep it forever.

Maybe a 1401D is what I really need.

Thanks again for your comments!

 

[thingy]

Cal,,,,don't listen to everything you hear,,or at least don't believe some of it,,,my 254 which is 25 h.p.,,has a heck of a lot of power,,,enough to use a 5 ft brushog and 5 ft tiller with no shortage of power,,,and just explaned above how the gearing works,,if you put any thing with standard trans. in to high a gear,for what you're doing it ain't going to work to good,,,I live in the hills of w.va.,,,mow up some pretty steep ones,,,never lacked of power now in almost 400 hrs,,,there is some ligitamite issues with these tractors,,,but lack of power is not one,,,jinmas I'm talking about now,,,,,thingy

 

[SPIKER]

I've never had any yanmars: heard good things about them as a fair older tech tractor. the JINMAS are same, fair old tech tractors. they are HEAVY and require more HP to pull thier own weight but at the same time that weight is what makes traction... with out one the other isuseless. power to pull 500 tons is in a dragster but it does not have the weight/traction to move it type of thing.

my 284 has a FEL on it and I mow ~5 acres of grass using 5' finish mower, it will pull a 6' I'm told. It will pull a 5' brush hog / rough cut rotary cutter too. I mow in HH1 and HL3 with the 5' mower. it needs the HL3 when going up hills and or HIGH grass over 6" cut. nothing would mow it any faster at that height anyhow so SPEED? while gear combos are great some of them are nearly identical HL3 and LH3 are about same except more noise when creeper gear is in creeper (spinning gear noise that is..) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif true HH3 is for transport and HH2 is pretty much a transport gear to but is good for off road transport. greg said he had dealer problems he did. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif not one I dealt with though there are lots of GOOD dealers who will go the extra mile for you. KAMA? I have not seen or used one, lots of people brag about them even ones who have owned JINMAS prior to the KAMA. is it better for YOU? not sure I would look for nearest dealers and best support for them to be a bigger deciding factor than simple one vs the other type thing as there have been some KAMA bashing prior too.

anyhow good luck with which ever.
MakrM