Alternator not charging battery on FarmPro 2420

[Harrygoodwrench]

I prefer a voltmeter over a ammeter. Its a matter of choice.

 

[tat2z1969]

Shunt-voltmeter style ammeters are virtually bulletproof... I'm not sure how you were frying them...

Soundguy

easy when the ones that come on many of these tractors are 30 amp and the new alt is twice that output.

Harry I agree with you, I like a volt meter also, sure does let you know if the diode trio burns a diode out, the amp gauge isn't going to show the higher voltage with the AC component that will cook a battery

 

[Soundguy]

(easy when the ones that come on many of these tractors are 30 amp and the new alt is twice that output.)

That's not much of an issue except that you loose display. The actual workings of the ammeter are generally not effected at that level. A shunt voltmeter ( ammeter ) is pretty much just a block of metal, and you are measuring a super minute votlage drop across it..and that is calibrated to show amperage... The meter will flow way more amps than it is calibrated to display. The mechanisim won't die till you are puimping enough current to burn the winding int he little jeweled needle movement.. And that takes alot.

Besides.. How long are you planning on staying at a 60A net charge? 10 seconds? 30 seconds? Any more and you have other problems... like a bad battery.. or shorted wire.. etc..I'm not talking about total alt output.. I'm talking net battery charge current.. which is what the ammeter measures...

Soundguy

 

[stevem5215]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM-811001&N=700+115&autoview=sku

This the one you are talking about for the 1 wire connetion type ? I'm going to order something this week to fix it. I'm getting sick of having to charge the battery constantly on it.

Steve

 

[Soundguy]

I can't understand why everyone is on the 'one wire' band wagon. There are decent benefits to the 3 wire disign.. one being very low rpm excitation, and a VR that doesn't have any parasytic drain on the system when not running.

Soundguy

 

[tat2z1969]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM-811001&N=700+115&autoview=sku

This the one you are talking about for the 1 wire connetion type ? I'm going to order something this week to fix it. I'm getting sick of having to charge the battery constantly on it.

Steve

Yes like that one, but make sure you tell them you want it set up for 1 wire operation that way you don't have to open it up and do the connection.
Don't worry about voltage regulator drain, the line is diode protected.
I swear if you posted about eating apples, someone would post you get cyanide poisoning from eating them. 1 wire Alt's have been in use for years.
Hope you getter up and running.

 

[Soundguy]

Regulator drain / diode protected? You sure about that. i fthere is a reverse biased diode inline with the regulator.. then current will NEVER be able to flow to it.

I'd like to see the specs for the quiescent current draw for that unit.

1 wire units used for years (Implying that must be the optimum technology now? .. ) Well.. we used to burn and drown 'witches' too.. but luckilly technology has progressed since then too...

Yes, 1 wire alts have been around for years. For 3 main reasons...
1).. electrictity / wires tends to be like 'magic' to the average shade tree mechanic.. and the less wires to hook up, the less chances to screw up. ( a 3 wire alt only requires actually 1 extra wire to an excitation source, as the 2nd extra wire is a loop to the charge stud... so the savings is ver negligible.. especially when many 1 wire alts actually cost more than their 3 wire counterparts... )

2) The popular delco 1 wire alt normall use din many tractor conversions generally reuires pretty high rpm to excite... Who wants to jaz a cold tractor engine to max rpm just to get the charging system going.. ( besides.. it's so easy to make a 3 wire unit automagically self excite by using a 10 cent diode inline with the #1 line, when connected to switched power.. like the 'ignition.. etc.

3) I know of a few tractors that aren't even rated for sufficient rpms to make some of the 1 wire jobs self excite... that's a real quandry for the average shadetree 'savage' mechanic who is afraid of hooking up some stranded vinyl covered copper...

Soundguy

 

[kidney]

that's a real quandry for the average shadetree 'savage' mechanic who is afraid of hooking up some stranded vinyl covered copper...

Soundguy,
What if I take your advice I magically become a professional? My 1 wire works fine and I don't even have to jaz my cold tractor engine. Oh I said that before in a previous post. Please you wire your tractor the way you like but I will wire mine the way I chose. kidney

 

[tat2z1969]

Regulator drain / diode protected? You sure about that. i fthere is a reverse biased diode inline with the regulator.. then current will NEVER be able to flow to it.

I'd like to see the specs for the quiescent current draw for that unit.

1 wire units used for years (Implying that must be the optimum technology now? .. ) Well.. we used to burn and drown 'witches' too.. but luckilly technology has progressed since then too...

Yes, 1 wire alts have been around for years. For 3 main reasons...
1).. electrictity / wires tends to be like 'magic' to the average shade tree mechanic.. and the less wires to hook up, the less chances to screw up. ( a 3 wire alt only requires actually 1 extra wire to an excitation source, as the 2nd extra wire is a loop to the charge stud... so the savings is ver negligible.. especially when many 1 wire alts actually cost more than their 3 wire counterparts... )

2) The popular delco 1 wire alt normall use din many tractor conversions generally reuires pretty high rpm to excite... Who wants to jaz a cold tractor engine to max rpm just to get the charging system going.. ( besides.. it's so easy to make a 3 wire unit automagically self excite by using a 10 cent diode inline with the #1 line, when connected to switched power.. like the 'ignition.. etc.

3) I know of a few tractors that aren't even rated for sufficient rpms to make some of the 1 wire jobs self excite... that's a real quandry for the average shadetree 'savage' mechanic who is afraid of hooking up some stranded vinyl covered copper...

Soundguy

what is the difference it the diode in line #1 and it being internal in the Alternator?
I posted the 1 wire Alt as a option for those who do not know how to wire a 3 wire system. The 3 wire system is the same as a 1 wire except the 1 wire the diode is internal to the Alt. The diode you say won't let current flow, yet it does on the 3 wire system? Current is not the issue.

1 wire units used for years (Implying that must be the optimum technology now? .. )

No just easy for the the people you insulted and called shadetree or "savage". Not everyone knows how to wire a machine just because they own the machine.

First do you know what a diode does? or do you go by what is on the bin draw at radio shack.
a diode is a component that restricts the direction of movement of charge carriers. Essentially, it allows an electric "CURRENT" to flow in one direction, but blocks it in the opposite direction. The diode can be thought of as an electronic version of a check valve. Circuits that require "CURRENT" in only one direction.
Also the diode will sense impedance and voltage as seperate values apart from CURRENT.
The electric current(I) flowing through a given resistance(R) is equal to the applied voltage(V) divided by the resistance, or i=v/r. For application to alternating-current circuits where inductances and capacitances as well as resistances are present, the law is i=v/z, where z is impedance (the diode).

"The conductor (the diode)in which the current flows is not proportional to the applied voltage "
causes the impedance difference or drop caused by the diode to exicte the regulator because it will see the VOLTAGE as a lower value from the voltage drop due to loss by impedance and inturn causes the rectification of the AC voltage (by the diode trio)to DC produced by the Alternator. So if you do the math a 3 wire or single wire excited alternator requires the same amount of impedance drop caused by a diode to excite the alternator to function. There is no difference, your 3 wire diode picks voltage from the key switch and a 1 wire picks it up from the 1 wire that goes to the battery unless of course in your case they didn't drown enough witches and by magic you have a different voltage at your key switch than at the battery.Or you REALLY have a need to see a idiot light on the dash would be the only reason to run a sense (diode) line to the key switch.
So to answer your Jaz the cold engine statement, if one has to Jaz the engine to get the alternator to excite, then it is a defective unit, ie the regulator is not to spec or the diode is bad in either case or on the 3 wire system your IDIOT light burned out.
to remind you , your statement read what you typed

( besides.. it's so easy to make a 3 wire unit automagically self excite by using a 10 cent diode inline with the #1 line, when connected to switched power.. like the 'ignition.. etc.

The same thing is achieved in a 1 wire alt electronically when the diode is connected from the battery source to the same place you call # 1 line internally.
not the brightest crayon in the box we see.

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy,
What if I take your advice I magically become a professional?

I never said that.. or implied it.. I merely gave info on the 3 wire setups.

My 1 wire works fine and I don't even have to jaz my cold tractor engine. Oh I said that before in a previous post.

My comment on that was not directed at your unit, specifically since you said that yours did excite at an acceptably low rpm. My comment was directed at some of the standard GM 10SI / 12 SI units that have a pretty high excite rpm. There are many regulator modules available for these units.. so excitation rpm will varry. Pulley size will effect that as well. I wanted the readers to be aware of that.. so they didn't think they could run down to autozone and any '1 wire' alternator they grabbed would magically auto-excite at superlow rpms...

Please you wire your tractor the way you like but I will wire mine the way I chose. kidney

As I stated above.. my comments were not specifically directed at your comment.. but as info in general , for other readers.. so that there would be no confusion..

Soundguy