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  1. #1
    Bronze Member
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    Jun 2006
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    Default Slow hydraulics in winter

    Have a Kama Ts254. Used it this winter to remove snow (near Phila. Pa.). Hydraulics were veeery slow---but got the job done. They are not really fast even in the warm weather---but OK. What can I do about this----change pump??? Or is it the cylinder size---not knowledgeable about hydraulics.
    Thanks, George

  2. #2
    Super Member greg_g's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    6,086
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    Western Kentucky
    Tractor
    JD3720 Cab, 300X loader with 4-in-1 bucket

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    If it's just the loader that's slow, cylinder size is in many cases related to speed. But if the TPH and steering are slow/hard also, you might just need to go to thinner fluid. Do the hydraulics start to respond faster after the tractor's been run for a while? Or are they slow all the time?

    //greg//
    USN (Ret)
    Former Chinese tractor owner (x4)
    Current John Deere owner

  3. #3
    Bronze Member
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    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    Hi Greg,
    Thanks for the reply. Yes it's just the loader that's slow, and it does get slightly
    better after it warms up---but not much better----still very slow. I'm not really satisfied with it even in warm weather and would like it to move quicker. What could I do????
    Geo.

  4. #4
    Super Member JerryG's Avatar
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    Northwest Arkansas
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    MF 1440-4 PowerShuttle

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    Hello George,
    Changing cylinders is a trade off.
    Smaller cylinders will decrease the amount that the loader can lift, but will increase the speed.
    Larger cylinders will increase the amount that the loader can lift, but will slow it down.
    Do you know what the GPM is on your tractor? Do you know the cylinder diameter that you have now?

  5. #5
    Elite Member RonMar's Avatar
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    May 2005
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    2,804
    Location
    Port Angeles WA
    Tractor
    Jinma 284 delivered 06/28/05

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    Also what hydraulic oil do you have in it now and what size are the fittings/hoses in the loader valve and out to the cylinders. Heck, what loader do you have on the tractor. It could be that the plumbing isn't sized right or perhaps restrictions(restricted orfices) have been added to the system to slow down the loader action for a tractor with a higher GPM flow rate and are too restrictive for a tractor with around a 7GPM max flow.
    Ron

  6. #6
    Elite Member DieselPower's Avatar
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    Sep 2006
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    2,761
    Location
    Fairfield, PA
    Tractor
    JD 3020, JD 4230, JD 7410, JD 2440, MF 750, NH LS170

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    If the loader is properly sized to the system and it's just a matter of the fluid being to thick you could switch to a winter UTF. In cold weather it will flow better and should help speed things up a little.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member bluechip's Avatar
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    Arkansas, USA

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    The TS254C can be ordered with different sized pumps. the 306 is standard, we have been using 314 or even 316 pumps. The last two numbers of the pump is the flow rating in ml per rev. on the KAMA the pump runs at engine speed. so 6ml x 2200 rpm is 13200ml or 12 litres per minute ( 3.5gpm). This is not enough for a loader and was intended to power the lift box only. the steering is separate pump. We stock 314 and 316 pumps for this tractor if you discover yours is a 306. It will help when we know what loader you are using, and just so we are sure we are talking realistic expectations, how long does it take to rasie the loader from the ground to full height (after the oil is warm)?

  8. #8
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Mar 2002
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    Central florida
    Tractor
    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    Quote Originally Posted by bluechip
    The last two numbers of the pump is the flow rating in ml per rev. on the KAMA the pump runs at engine speed. so 6ml x 2200 rpm is 13200ml or 12 litres per minute ( 3.5gpm). This is not enough for a loader
    You 'new tractor' guys sure are funny ( spoiled )... 3.5gpm not enough for a loader?

    Look at this baby.. A 1-arm loader. I got a couple of them.. one on a ford 660 one on a ford 850.. both from 1955. These loaders can break out 3000# and lift 1200# to full height. They were designed to run on 2.85 gpm to 4gpm systems.

    Soundguy
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member bluechip's Avatar
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    Arkansas, USA

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    Well .... maybe if you have more than one cylinder to move, 3.5 gallons is not really enough.... that is.. for quick and efficient use of a loader. Wonder why the one arm loader idea never caught on. I had an old ford 960 with a loader, you had to pull a rope to get the bucket to dump. It was quick and didn't need any hydraulics for dumping!

  10. #10
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Mar 2002
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    Location
    Central florida
    Tractor
    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Slow hydraulics in winter

    This one actually has hyd dump.. though I like the trip dump scheme too. It was actually way cheaper to setup a trip dump loader as you could simply chain the rear lift arms down, and then run a hose from the pressure test port on either the hyd cover or the pump base and then hook that right to the lift cyl.. and just use your tractor's 3pt control for lift, then just pull the line for trip dump... no extra 200-600$ valve to purchase. On the full hyd loaders like this one.. you needed a dual spool on the hyd cover.. or a seperate pump on the crank (stinger) and spool setup. Dual spools run about 600$... but you get to keep using hte 3pt. That's how i set mine up.

    All the laoder frame is on one side... very easy to get on / off the tractor with no loader frame in the way. These 1 arm jobs, as I posted.. had excelent specs.. especially considering the front axle design of the tractors. They were made to be mated/unmated in 15 minutes if you used the front pump kit as it just bolted on to a carrier in the front, and you parked under a tree, unbolted the pump, threw a line over a limb.. and put a jack stand ( included ) down under the now, and then pulled 2 pins and 1 more botl.. and the laoder was off.. cut wheels hard and back away in a spiral-ish pattern.

    This laoder ( 711 / 722 ) was designed to fit the fords from 1939 thru 1964, and then they modified the attachment box ( and later retro'd the bracket set so either would work ).. and then the loader fit the 65-75 2000-4000 series including some of the fordsons.

    Not sure why they never caught on. i've sene 1 arm designs on other tractors before..like a farmall cub.

    My guess is people may have thought they were weak? All i can say is i lift more with my 1-arm job then lots of the tube frame loaders that were made for N front axle can lift.. They made a variety of attachments.. dirt bucket, snow bucket, maneur bucket with extra capacity dirt plate and maneur forks, as well as a front dozer blade.

    Soundguy

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