Help selecting a dozer

[hayden]

I could use some advise on selecting a used dozer. I'm sure a number of people will suggest just hiring someone to do the work I need, and I might end up doing that. However, presume for a minute that I've decided to buy a used machine rather than hire out the work.

I don't know what to look for or what I need. I have a lot of experience with a tractor, loader, and backhoe, but I have never operated a dozed and know essentially nothing about them. Here's the work I need to do over the next year or two.

- Site work for two new buildings. This will involve lowering an area by 1-2 feet for the access drive, and cutting down/filling another area for one building, adn digging into a sloped grade for the second building. My backhoe will be used for much of this, but all the grading I think will go significantly faster with a dozer.

- The road that accesses my place is 1/2 mile long and needs a major fix up. It needs to be graded, widened, and several steep bumps cut down.

- I have another mile or two of logging roads that need to be reopened.

- I'd like to dig out an area for a pond. I think it was once a pond many many years ago, and is about an acre in size.

- I also have never-ending logging to do, and this a dozer would be helpful for that too.

I'd probably buy a machine, use it for a few years, then sell it (or maybe not).

All this seems like great work for a dozer, but I have no idea how big to go, what features, etc.

I've read about 6-way blades, which I gather are up/down, angle left/right, and tilt. I think I need that.

On my tractor I have a hydrostatic drive, which I really like. I see that modern dozers have this feature, but don't know if it will force me to a higher-end and newer machine that I otherwise need.

I don't want a project machine since I'd rather spend my time running the dozer than fixing it.

Less money is always better, but I'd be willing to spend up to $30k if I can realiably get most or all of that back in later resale (assuming I don't trash it).


Any suggestions on makes and models, features, etc?

Many thanks in advance,

Peter

 

[chh]

I have a 2 Cat dozers, a D4 H LGP and a D3C series III hydrostat LGP. Both are great machines and the D3 would do the work you would need. The hydrostat's are mostly all newer machines and if I found one for under 30k I would probably be afraid of it.(in a Cat) I gave about 36k for mine with 5000 hrs on the meter. A 450 JD or a 550 Case would probably work for you also.(Cases are usually quite a bit cheaper) If you don't know anything about dozers find somebody who does to help you look or have a prospect checked out by a heavy equipment mechanic. They are expensive to work on, especially the undercarriage. If I planned to use it very much or keep it very long I would not get one with less than a 50% undercarriage. And check carefully for slop in the 6 way(PAT) blade. A new rotator ball on the back of my blade just cost $800 installed. If the ad says "Great Farm Dozer" it means "Too worn out to work Commercially".

They Hydro's are a breeze to run(the wife runs ours). My 4 is a 6 speed shuttle with a clutch. I don't really care for the manual tranny. A powershift is much easier, but it is a good brush clearing dozer that hopefully will be finding another home in a year or so. You should be able to find a decent rig for under 30 if you shop carefully. If you have a lot of muddy areas get a LGP, rocks go for the narrow tracks.

Be very careful shopping, they are quite a few people out there that have no scruples about selling painted junk and representing it as good heavy equipment. Like I said, find a good independent heavy equipment mechanic to check it over before you buy it.

 

[JoeinTX]

Hello, Hayden

With potentially $30k to play with, you've got a lot of possibilities here. It sounds like you're very interested in getting something with an angle blade for all of the grading, sloping and leveling you are going to try to do. Horsepower/size-wise can be tough to say and it can depend on how fast you want to get some of these projects done....smaller can do it but take longer.....but I am curious about this one:

"- I'd like to dig out an area for a pond. I think it was once a pond many many years ago, and is about an acre in size.."

-A one acre dirt tank is a lot of dirt to move. If I were going to hire it done, I'd look for somone with a D-7 (200hp+) plus sized dozer to do it but I don't know if something that big is in your sights. If you're not worried about time and don't mind a big project, then you could go smaller and get in a lot of seat time.

-As for trannys, most dozers made in the last 30 years have powershift transmissions (Cat built a D4/5/6 with manual shifts into the 1980s and Komatsu built its compact D-20 with one as well) so most likely anything you go and look at is going to have one as well.....JD, Case, Kommy, Fiat-Allis, etc.

-When looking at dozers, making sure the undercarriage is good is big. Loose tracks.....worn grousers......worn sprocket (drive wheel) teeth.....thin pads......all bad signs unless its for light use or you don't mind replacing it yourself at some point. Undercarriages are like tires on your vehicle.....when it's time to replace one you might as well replace the whole shooting match and be done with it for several years. Steering needs to be free and responsive and the breaks need to work well.

And like most other equipment......obvious leaks, cracks, repairs, damage, signs of abuse. A lot dozers for sale have a nice, shiny new coat of yellow paint...................that means nothing as to its condition and can be used to hide or distract you from problems.


Size? A great big shot in the dark would be something along the lines of a J.D. 550/650G or Cat D-4/5C or Case 850........all in the 80-100hp range and all with angle blades and powershift trannies. All are reasonably new enough to expect better reliability and ease of maintenance. And all can be had in reasonable enough shape for the money you want to spend.

A few quick examples off of eBay for scale:

Case 850B Crawler dozer 6 way blade PTO NO RESERVE - eBay (item 220189092393 end time Jan-11-08 19:31:26 PST)

Caterpillar D5C XL III Hystat. Crawler Dozer Tractor! - eBay (item 220189874613 end time Jan-14-08 14:27:53 PST)



And here's something older, but, could be a steal for the money:


1970 INTERNATIONAL TD15 TRACK BULL DOZER WITH BLADE - eBay (item 290196777536 end time Jan-15-08 10:20:59 PST)

 

[chh]

As far as model's I would start checking ads for;
Cats D 3 or D 4's
Case 450 or 550
Komatsu 39 or 41's
John Deere 450(E model or later I think) and 550.

All those would be capable dirt work, road, and light clearing machines. All with be available with PAT blades. Powershift or Hydo trannies.

Grey market Cats are plentiful, Cat will supply parts to those machines. 1 of mine is grey market machine.

 

[acsoccer10]

Hayden,

I am not an expert like alot of the guys here are, but I can tell you from experience (I own a D3, paid 17k), that buy the biggest dozer you can afford. JoeinTX is right 1 arce pond is very big, if I would try to dig that out it would take alot of seat time. I personally wish I would have gotten a D4 or D6. A D3 will do most of what you want it might just take longer.

If you not an expert like me, make sure you have a dealership close by, they can help you out when you are in a bind. That is one reason I went with CAT, the dealership is very close and good.

What I have been told about dozers is make sure you look at the undercarriage. This is one of the most expensive system on the machine. There are many websites out there that can help you under the pin wear, sprocket wear, etc. So that when you look at a used machine you know what to look for.

Another thing I would suggest is actually drive the dozer and push dirt. Most people will start it up for you but you really want to see the machine push dirt.

Also when you purchase one, make sure you get an owners' manual. This can be a real life saver. I purchase mind on ebay used (much cheaper than from the dealership new)

Hope this helps, and good luck and post some pictures of the new addition when you get it.

Thanks,

 

[EddieWalker]

Solid advice so far, and I agree with all of it.

My dozer is a Case 1550. I've learned a few lessons the hard way since buying it. First, don't expect anybody to come out and fix it for you. A good heavy equipment mechanic is too busy and making too much money already to want to deal with you. An average mechanic is also too busy to deal with anybody out on a farm. If you find somebody that is willing to come out to your place to fix your machine, be sure to pay attention to all those red flags that you'll be seeing.

More importantly then the brand that you buy is the dealer that supports it. If you have a Case dealer close by, that's a brand you should consider. If JD is several hours away, that's a brand you should avoid. If there is only one gurantee about owning a dozer, it's that it will break down on you. I garantee it!!!!!!!

You have enough work to do that owning a dozer is justified. Take your time, learn the terms and component names. Don't rely on the seller to be honest. Owners of equipment are in an entirely new catagory on dishonesty. If you don't know anything about a dozer, they won't teach you. More then likely, they will just tell you that they don't know anything about it and maybe toss in a rumor on what the previous owner said about it.

Spend about a month reading all the threads on here that are about dozers. You'll find that they can be amazing fun, or the worse nightmare imaginable.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[rexcramer]

You'll find that they can be amazing fun, or the worse nightmare imaginable.

Thats the quote of the year so far!

 

[JoeinTX]

Not to be alarming, Hayden, but this nugget of wisdom from Eddie is 100% accurate:

"If there is only one gurantee about owning a dozer, it's that it will break down on you. I garantee it!!!!!!!.."

I've never known a dozer owner who wasn't a dozer mechanic. Like he said, should something go south on you, you're probably going to be largely on your own to get it rectified..........so make sure you've got some good hydraulic jacks, the "big" set of wrenches, and the time to spare to spend days/weeks getting it back on its tracks.

Getting the Cat wrencher or JD technician out from the dealer to look over your rig after you've thrown a track or lost your steering is usually a waiting game. Then, if/when they do, get ready to lighten the bank account for labor and new parts. I'm not saying dealer mechs are unreliable or untrustworthy, but like Eddie said they are generally booked-up, have some major accounts to handle, and priorities are priorities for them with no offense intended.

I don't own one currently but have run many ranging from a small Case 450, to a Cat D-5 up to a 17A D-7.............and I love doing it. As much as I'd love to have one of my own right now, I can't justify the cost and time.


If you aren't real sure about the dozer thing and just have a few projects that your tractor/backhoe can't handle.........I personally would hire it out. The others I'd hack away at with what you have and count the dollars you haven't spent all the while. Heck, several years ago we cleaned-out a smaller dirt tank using a couple of Ford tractors, a small dirt pan, a typical rear tractor blade, and a chisel plow. My dad and I worked on it for about a week and a half on the weekend and evenings after I figured about 3 days and between $1500-$1800 to use the Case 450 to do it and it cost around $500 in gas/diesel and wear and tear to do it without it.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've been real happy with the Cat D3 I bought for 20k 10 years ago. The city was insisting on Fire Trials and Fire Breaks and hiring the job out was more trouble than it was worth.

The jobs were too small for the big guys and the little guys always seemed to have equipment trouble or were not available when the weather was just right.

The biggest reason I bought was to have control of the job... I can do my road maintenance when conditions are optimal and not have to work around someone else's schedule.

I've spent about $200 each year on repairs... mostly hoses or lines I've damaged, on my third battery and I replaced the steering brakes/clutch facings. So $2400 in 10 years with me doing the labor.

Definitely insist on a 6-way blade and a rear ripper can come in handy.

Peterson Caterpillar in San Leandro is 5 miles from me and the parts guys are great. They will do whatever it takes if you're on a job and need a part.

I needed to replace a hydraulic line and they made it for me on the spot... no waiting.

 

[EddieWalker]

Peterson Caterpillar in San Leandro is 5 miles from me and the parts guys are great.

I used to live less then a mile from there!!!

Eddie