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  1. #21
    Silver Member
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    Roxton Falls, QC
    Tractor
    Any, as long as there's a DENIS CIMAF head on it ;)

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    Hello IronHorse,

    Regarding mulcher rotation, I understand what some customers we've heard here mentionned: by going top backwards, you throw some possibly hazardous projections much further away in front of you. That's not a problem if you're alone far out in the woods, but it might be a concern for pedestrians or drivers if you're closer to roads and houses.

    Having said that, the guys that run our excavator-mount models use both direction while working. To better understand, from the operator's cab on a standard excavator, you would see the drum rotating counter-clockwise. So here's what they do:

    1. Using the swing, they do a first pass from right to left, at maybe 2 or 3 feet above the ground. This clears the vegetation cover and reveals the rocks that might be underneath.

    2. Then, swinging back from left to right, the go closer to the ground with the nearer-end of the brushcutter almost touching it. They then clear the rest of the vegetation, avoiding the rocks by using the bucket cylinder.

    So, on the first pass, you're working basically as you would be on a skid steer. Rotation of the drum is seen by the vegetation as being from the top down.

    On the second pass though, you got it, rotation is then seen as bottom up (is that the right expression? Correct the French Canadian if not ) What is interesting when they go on their second pass though is how they use the bottom-up movement to pick-up material that is on the ground and suck it into the rotor.

    I'd like to invite you to visit this video, where you'll see how it goes one way and the other...
    DENIS CIMAF Inc - Video of the DAH-150 and DAH-100

    ... however, the movies are only in QuickTime for now. I'll have Windows Media Player formats done next week and I'll post the link here.


    Regarding vertical-shaft vs horizontal-shaft brushcutters, you'll find you'll throw more stuff with the vertical-shaft and so you'll work longer to get the same clean finish you'd get with a horizontal-shaft. However, cost can be significantly lower, which is a good reason for some people to go with it.

    However, if you're looking for production and nicer finish, I'd suggest to go with the horizontal-shaft one.


    And regarding your nice 23-tonne machine, is it really a Jonyang 230E? I've just read the specs and that looks like a nice setup: 170 hp and 2x62 gal/min max flow... Good for you. I'd be interested in knowing who you got it from...

    By the way, we have been doing excavator-mount brushcutters for over 15 years now. PM me if you would like to have more infos on our DAH-150E (that's the model for that size of excavator, no power-pack needed).


    Couldn't resist


    Fred
    DENIS CIMAF Inc.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -200707-dah-150e-0701-0161-a   -200707-dah-150e-cat-325d  

  2. #22
    Veteran Member Iron Horse's Avatar
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    Orstraya , Ex convict stock , G'day .

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    Thank you Denis for your very informative reply . The tips on the different pass angles will be very handy . I dont know yet what sort of flow i have at the stick , i had a jump hose fitted to my other digger so as to combine both pumps . I'm not sure if this one has that standard or not . I bought the Jonyang off of King Equipment here in OZ but i think they are also big where they drive on the wrong side of the road I traded my Nissan truck as i'm guessing fuel will hit $2+ a litre and trucks will only be worth scrap value soon and the money i will save on insterest means i had the truck for 4 years and actually made money on it . I'm hoping things will be different with the digger as i can make around $165 an hour with it and the fuel burned to $ made will be much better than a truck . Can you give me an idea of a price landed in Brisbane for the DAH-150E . Thanks again .

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Iron Horse's Avatar
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    Orstraya , Ex convict stock , G'day .

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    Well it turned up today . It feels as big as a bus compared to my 3tonner . When i slew it around it feels like it has about 15 feet of overhang at the rear , i think i'll do a pretty good job of clearing trees with the counterweight alone . Its overwhelming to say the least , i'm sitting in the cockpit and can't see out the back or to the right because of all the metal hanging off this thing . The controls are back to front to my other digger and i warned the truck driver it wont be pretty when i drive it off the float , it must have looked like i was ortistic the way i was jerking around . First thing tomorrow the pilot lines are getting swapped around so i can drive it . An operator once told me he bent the rotor on a mulcher and i wondered how on earth could you do that , but now after seeing how strong this thing is it could crumple one like a beer can .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -new-jonyang-002-jpg   -new-jonyang-003-jpg  

  4. #24
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Location
    Roxton Falls, QC
    Tractor
    Any, as long as there's a DENIS CIMAF head on it ;)

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    Hello IronHorse,

    It seems the planets are well-aligned...

    An equipment dealer in Beenleigh contacted us last week. After having seen his dealership turned down by Gyro-Trac, he contacted us to discuss possibility of doing business with the developer of the technology ( us )

    We currently have a head in New Zealand that was sent there a while ago for a trade show. It was left there in hope the dealer would find someone interested. Since no sale happened, we were considering bringing it back to Canada. But with that dealer interested, we are considering to send it to him instead.

    I will PM you his name and contact info...


    Thanks,


    Fred

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Iron Horse's Avatar
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    Orstraya , Ex convict stock , G'day .

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    Fred , the planets may be aligned but at the moment my bank account is bottom lined . If things improve we'll talk . Regards Reg .

  6. #26
    Silver Member
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    Roxton Falls, QC
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    Any, as long as there's a DENIS CIMAF head on it ;)

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    No problem at all. I'll keep you posted if we end up sending one head to a dealer in AU.

    In the meantime, have fun with the new big toy



    Frederic
    DENIS CIMAF Inc.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Iron Horse's Avatar
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    Orstraya , Ex convict stock , G'day .

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    My new digger only has hammer piping and not auger piping . Is this what is usually used to run a groomer or slasher ? It has 2 x 235 litres per minute @ 30MPA (5000psi i think). Does that usually combine at the work end of the pipes or would it still have only 235 per min available ? Is that still a good amount of oil and pressure for grooming ? It's near impossible to find any help with this Chinese gear as everyone want's to sell it but no one knows anything about it .

  8. #28
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Location
    Roxton Falls, QC
    Tractor
    Any, as long as there's a DENIS CIMAF head on it ;)

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    Hello IronHorse,

    I'm not the technical guru for the company, but normally, for most modern excavator with good-enough hydraulic system, 170 hp should be enough to run a groomer. Is the service manager at your dealer's place able to get the hydraulic schematics for your excavator? I'm sure my uncle (the technical guru) would like to study it...

    If you can get it in pdf, PM me...
    Frederic Denis
    DENIS CIMAF Inc.
    www.deniscimaf.com

  9. #29
    Veteran Member Iron Horse's Avatar
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    Orstraya , Ex convict stock , G'day .

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    Sorry no service manager , salesman , owner , importer etc . The company who imported them went broke and thats why i got it so cheap . No one knows anything about them . Ive emailed Jonyang in China and hope for a reply . But going by the operating booklet that was translated from Chinese to Swahealy , to Arabic and back to Ingwish i'm not hopefull . I know it's a good machine with it's Kawasaki pump and valve , Toshiba swing motor , Hydash final drives and Cummins motor etc . But it would have been nice for the company to have learnt more about the product they were trying to sell (but that was my gain). What i really need to know is if the mulchers are driven by the hammer piping or do i need two way auger piping .

  10. #30
    Silver Member
    Join Date
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    Location
    Roxton Falls, QC
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    Any, as long as there's a DENIS CIMAF head on it ;)

    Default Re: Which cutter head rotation ?

    To be honest, I don't know how the augers are usually installed. But I think you'll find our installation is closer to a hammer installation:

    A priority flow valve (aka diverter valve, or hammer valve) is installed between one or two pumps and the main body valve. We send priority flow to our head (usually 40-45 gal/min) using a #16 (1") line for the pressure. Return line is recommended to be a #20 (1.25"). This return line connects to the return lines of the other functions. Finally, a #12 (0.75") drain line is required, this line going directly to the tank (we supply a small filter assembly to go on that line).

    That's the basic. We do install some other stuff, but that's mainly for a more secure hydraulic circuit and for better usability, and that results from our experience in installing excavator-mount brushcutters.

    You don't need extra cooling, at least not with our machines (variable displacement motors). Regular cleaning of the rad is sufficient.

    Lastly, unless the hydraulic system of the Jonyang's is a copy of the Komatsu's, don't think about installing the brushcutter simply on the service spool. You better get constant flow to the head, and this can't be achieved on the service spool unless you have a mean of adjusting the level of priority on that spool.


    Good luck with the english manuals. It might be faster to learn to read chinese, though...
    Frederic Denis
    DENIS CIMAF Inc.
    www.deniscimaf.com

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